A plea into the wilderness

1,456 Views | 15 Replies | Last: 9 days ago by stu
socaltownie
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I am not sure anyone is listening but I really believe that Cal is at a critical moment. Believe it or not it CAN get worse than Mark Fox and W. Jones.

Losing Madsen at this moment - which seems NOT to be about the salary $$$ but rather institutional NIL money, would send a message. It would say that Cal, in the modern landscape, is either unable to internally fund or externally leverage donors that would allow the team to fund a mid-level ACC team. In the modern game who would take that job? Maybe someone committed to the idea of just teaching hoop skills to 2 stars but no one else.

The challenge (and the plea below) is that near as I can tell Cal has NEVER invested in the kind of alumni fundraising network for BB that is in place for Football. I read about the raise of 30+ million, in part because of groups like the SF Gridiron club and others that keep alumni as they enter into their prime earning years engaged.

But MBB does not, it seem, have that and instead is relying upon a small group of donors who are at least uncomfortable with the modern funding model.

Cal NEEDS to develop an alternative. This is absolutely where I part way with SB because I believe actions and behavior reveal things. The whales are not "getting off the fence." I am not sure they are even on it. I am not saying invest millions from the general fund but rather they have to invest in the fundraising system that works for small and medium sized donors. MANY VERY successful c3s do this and the infrastructure/human capital investment are minimal.

I fear absent that MBB will be like the characters waiting for Gadot.....hoping that a whale shows up to rescue them but finding out that the Whale is old, not actively engaged and not connected to the infrastructure that exists for FB.
Take care of your Chicken
BeachedBear
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Did we lose Madsen?

Or is this speculative?
socaltownie
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BeachedBear said:

Did we lose Madsen?

Or is this speculative?

Right now the worry is that radio silence is not good.
Take care of your Chicken
stu
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socaltownie said:

BeachedBear said:

Did we lose Madsen?

Or is this speculative?

Right now the worry is that radio silence is not good.

I can't think of a good reason for Madsen to say anything if he's trying to pressure the administration or donors for more support.
6956bear
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stu said:

socaltownie said:

BeachedBear said:

Did we lose Madsen?

Or is this speculative?

Right now the worry is that radio silence is not good.

I can't think of a good reason for Madsen to say anything if he's trying to pressure the administration or donors for more support.

I think some silence provides a bit of leverage for Madsen. As a fan I might wish he say I am committed to building this thing. But I am reasonably sure the folks that matter have a strong understanding of the situation.

We all know more support is needed. NIL Budget and administrative. I feel confident the situation is being addressed. Less confident that a satisfactory solution is reached.
BeachedBear
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socaltownie said:

BeachedBear said:

Did we lose Madsen?

Or is this speculative?

Right now the worry is that radio silence is not good.

Hmmmm - analysis of lack of evidence, when none is really expected.

Personally, I would not worry too much about that. That seems more like a dramatic cry for help for the information-craving lemmings who have been programmed to feed off sound bites and consumerism.

" Oh No! My girlfriend didn't tell me she loves me in the last hour - that must mean she is dumping me"

Bwahahahaha

Harky4
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I hope that Madsen is talking to Lyons, instead of the two co-AD stooges, about the future of MBB at Cal; otherwise, we are screwed
Bobodeluxe
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All that is needed to move up a couple of places in the mediocre acc is maybe $100M over the next five years. Is that too big an ask?
stu
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Depends on who you're asking.
bearister
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"Believe it or not it CAN get worse than Mark Fox and W. Jones."

Ok, I'll take the bait. I coached my son's CYO team when he was a boy and I would be willing to wager that if I coached Fox's and Jones' teams, and drank two 4 packs of Guinness featuring that nitrogen widget at the bottom of the can during every game, that I could coach up at least one W in a string of 16 consecutive games, a feat neither of those numbnuts could pull off during their dual 16 consecutive loss skids. Oh, and it would not have cost Cal $85,000 per game to have me coach.

Takeaway: No, it cannot get worse than Wyking Jones and Mark Fox.


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MiZery
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What coaching opportunities are open? I imagine UNC job would be for more established coaches
calumnus
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MiZery said:

What coaching opportunities are open? I imagine UNC job would be for more established coaches

Did he even interview for the ASU job? If he didn't go after the BYU or Stanford jobs, I really don't think he is leaving, He agreed to the extension, he is making good money (and has a lot on the bank), is living in the town he grew up in and wants to raise his family in and just had his most successful season at Cal with the most returning players yet.

Even IF he left, we would get a sizable payout. Lyons wouldn't leave it to the lame duck twins. And no, it cannot get worse than Mark Fox and the worst record out of 365 D1 teams, the lowest scoring of 365 teams. Worst is the worst.

Calfan92
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Name one other team who wants Madsen as a coach. Exactly. He ain't going anywhere, for better or for worse. Y'all need to calm down about how great he is since we couldn't even get out of the second round of the NIT.
6956bear
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Calfan92 said:

Name one other team who wants Madsen as a coach. Exactly. He ain't going anywhere, for better or for worse. Y'all need to calm down about how great he is since we couldn't even get out of the second round of the NIT.

I do not think the anxiety for most is about Madsen's coaching ability per se. It seems to be more that he is possibly looking to leave due to lack of support.

Despite the on court success this season little headway if any was made in additional support. The level of success was real only good compared to the previous 8 seasons. The team did not make the NCAA tournament and was eliminated in game 2 of the NIT.

The attendance while slightly improved was not good. They drew 5k for senior day in a must win game for any realistic hope for an NCAA tourney bid. The NIT drew less than 3K combined for the 2 games. There appears to not be enough NIL to keep the best players and add the needed players to realistically compete for an NCAA bid.

So Madsen may not be in demand but it does seem like he is trying to leverage this season into much greater support for the program. And best that I can tell it is not going as well as hoped. Likely not close if we are being honest.

We can all love how the team played better than previous seasons. That being on the NCAA bubble for the first time in many seasons was great. That they enjoyed wins over UCLA, UNC and Miami. It has not so far been a catalyst for greater donor NIL which is the key to success now.

I like Mark. I am not wishing for his departure. But without real support both from the administration and the donors this program will flounder almost certainly. I do not blame him for considering other opportunities. I am not sure he will be presented with any but it would not suprise me if takes one if offered. Even one that on paper seems like a lesser one than here.

This is not a great program and won't even be a good one without significantly more support. It will take money. Money that a majority of the donors that could help have been unwilling to part with. Their money and they have their reasons.

Madsen knows what the future holds if things stay as is. It won't be pretty. This is the nature of the revenue sports now. You have to invest first. The results will follow. It does not work in reverse. Invest and support. That is the way. Right now it looks like neither are being done at a level to support success for basketball.

So we can argue about whether Madsen is a good coach. I think mediocre to slightly above average may be where he lands. But nobody will do any better if the support stays as is. So IMO this is not about Madsen as much as it is about support for the program.
socaltownie
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6956bear said:

Calfan92 said:

Name one other team who wants Madsen as a coach. Exactly. He ain't going anywhere, for better or for worse. Y'all need to calm down about how great he is since we couldn't even get out of the second round of the NIT.

I do not think the anxiety for most is about Madsen's coaching ability per se. It seems to be more that he is possibly looking to leave due to lack of support.

Despite the on court success this season little headway if any was made in additional support. The level of success was real only good compared to the previous 8 seasons. The team did not make the NCAA tournament and was eliminated in game 2 of the NIT.

The attendance while slightly improved was not good. They drew 5k for senior day in a must win game for any realistic hope for an NCAA tourney bid. The NIT drew less than 3K combined for the 2 games. There appears to not be enough NIL to keep the best players and add the needed players to realistically compete for an NCAA bid.

So Madsen may not be in demand but it does seem like he is trying to leverage this season into much greater support for the program. And best that I can tell it is not going as well as hoped. Likely not close if we are being honest.

We can all love how the team played better than previous seasons. That being on the NCAA bubble for the first time in many seasons was great. That they enjoyed wins over UCLA, UNC and Miami. It has not so far been a catalyst for greater donor NIL which is the key to success now.

I like Mark. I am not wishing for his departure. But without real support both from the administration and the donors this program will flounder almost certainly. I do not blame him for considering other opportunities. I am not sure he will be presented with any but it would not suprise me if takes one if offered. Even one that on paper seems like a lesser one than here.

This is not a great program and won't even be a good one without significantly more support. It will take money. Money that a majority of the donors that could help have been unwilling to part with. Their money and they have their reasons.

Madsen knows what the future holds if things stay as is. It won't be pretty. This is the nature of the revenue sports now. You have to invest first. The results will follow. It does not work in reverse. Invest and support. That is the way. Right now it looks like neither are being done at a level to support success for basketball.

So we can argue about whether Madsen is a good coach. I think mediocre to slightly above average may be where he lands. But nobody will do any better if the support stays as is. So IMO this is not about Madsen as much as it is about support for the program.

This (better than my OP). Right now we have a coach who is able to play the "inside" game. Has bay area roots. Has a rock solid personality and connects with people. He has shown (Tyson, Pippen) that he can "coach up" guys that everyone else over looked. Unclear (but that is true of the NBA as well - the style Madsen knows) he is going to appeal to those who like set plays and less player freedom. But I think that is the style that wins in the modern game.

And yes, we CAN do worse than Fox or Jones because the only person that will take a job that is a true black hole (aka in the p4 but woefully under NIL'ed and facing x country trips) will be those who can not do any better and are looking for an end of career payday or a flyer because they have been stuck and passed over in MM.

Not understanding this is failing to appreciate the way that NIL has transformed the profession.
Take care of your Chicken
stu
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6956bear said:

So we can argue about whether Madsen is a good coach. I think mediocre to slightly above average may be where he lands. But nobody will do any better if the support stays as is. So IMO this is not about Madsen as much as it is about support for the program.

I rate Madsen good to very good for results relative to support.
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