RedlessWardrobe said:
BearlyCareAnymore said:
RedlessWardrobe said:
BearlyCareAnymore said:
RedlessWardrobe said:
manbearlion123 said:
"Madsen is not a very good X's and O's coach. But his recruiting could make up for that if he's given the resources needed to get and keep our top players/targets."
I keep seeing Madsen is not a good X's and O's coach. I would hope mbl123 could give some specific reasons why.
The Duke game for example. Was Madsen doing his job on his X's and O's for 30 minutes, and then with 10 minutes to go he simply forgot everything?
That game was lost because ultimately we are missing a couple of power-forward type players that would enable us to compete physically and add depth against a team like Duke for a full 40 minutes. If you have an issue with Madsen, maybe it should be he should have recruited a couple of guys who could play the 4. We start two frontcourt guys (Bell/Camden) who play like 3's. Isn't gonna cut it against teams like Duke.
Did Dominican do something awesome for nearly 30 minutes and then simply forget everything or were they never going to win and it was more about what Cal did in the last 10 minutes than what Dominican did in the first 30? Was it about depth or was it that in the back of their minds Cal knew they could always turn it on and they just did so when the time came?
When you are a heavy underdog and you stick with a team for 30 and then they pull away for a double digit victory, 9 times out of 10, that was about your opponent's play, not yours. It isn't about depth or you running out of gas. It is about them playing with their food.
Cal was not in that game for 30 because of X's and O's and out of it in the last 10 because of depth. We were in that game because Duke let us be in that game. And, frankly, that is about both X's and O's and talent, though the disparity in the latter makes the former pretty much moot.
Wow, a little bit of double talk here. Your statement goes around in circles. So now, (whether it was X/O's OR talent, OR both) its not about one team wearing down but is now about the better team "letting" the inferior team in game. In the game I watched on Wednesday, it sure looked liked to me that the Cal players' stamina and intensity wore down in the last ten minutes. I don't think Duke started "thinking differently." To me it looked like a basketball game, not a chess match.
How do you tell the difference between a game where one team wears down and thus their intensity drops in comparison to their opponent and a game where a much better team raises its intensity down the stretch thus making their opponent look slower and less intense? I grant you, it could be either, but that is exactly what a game where the far superior team turns it on looks like and as I said, 9 times out of 10 (not 10 out of 10) the better team was playing with their food.
Again, what about Dominican? Did they just wear down? Were they as good as we are and just didn't have the depth to go 40? I'll give you the answer. No. They were never going to win that game.
If Duke thought that Cal was as good as they are for 30 minutes and Duke only won because we got tired, Duke would be freaking out right now because there is no way they are beating the teams they hope to beat if that is the case. Because those teams are a lot better than Cal and won't get tired, so if Cal can beat Duke over 30 minutes, any top 30 team will beat them all day over 40 minutes. I guarantee you, Duke and its fans are not concerned because they know their team just flipped the switch at the 30 minute mark and did what they were always going to do.
I used to say this about football (after experiencing Tedford) - if you never have the ball down one score in the fourth quarter, you were never in the game no matter what happened before that. I don't think there is as obvious a standard for basketball, but Cal was not within single digits at any point in the last 8 minutes. They weren't in the game. That is the definition of a team playing with its food.
I don't know where you think the double talk is but here is single talk. Cal was never going to win that game. That is because they are way better. They are better at X's and O's and they are much more talented.
First of all, I don't recall anyone here (including myself) stating that Cal was going to win the game. You should keep your response limited to the statements made.
As to your initial question, in my world if you watch a basketball game (or almost any game that requires action and athleticism), there are certain games where the players actions and energy on one side will slow down. They will show fatigue. That's something you can see with your own eyes. What you want to emphasize is seeing "intensity." Last time I checked, level of intensity comes from emotion. You're trying to say that it can only be- more intensity causing better play. In reality there's no way to "see" that. I'm saying that what I saw the other night was definitely a Cal team that was gassed by the 10 minute mark. You have the right to disagree, but your take is that all of a sudden Duke "intensified", an emotional change. I think that the criteria I use is much more tangible. I realize that an intesity level can change, but what I saw was a tired Cal team. It's more likely that Cal's fatigue made Duke look more "intense", then the other way around. Makes perfect sense.
First of all, I don't recall saying that it can only be more intensity causing better play. You should keep your response limited to statements made.
Second of all, last time I checked, level of intensity, ie focus, passion, determination, does not exclusively derive from emotion. It very often comes straight up from will. Like "okay guys. we've been doing this for 30 minutes. Time to step it up. Let's take these guys down now." And when a team that is better increases their focus and drive, they will play tighter defense, exert more energy, beat the other team to the spot, etc. Which makes the other team make more mistakes, look slower, miss shots, etc. All things that lead to the perception that they are tired. As you said, you have the right to disagree. I think it is far more likely that Duke stepping it up and being Duke made Cal look tired than the other way around. I think that is born out, frankly, by the extremely common occurrence of lesser teams hanging around for three quarters in all manner of sport only to get their doors blown off when things get serious.
I get it. I have rooted for a loser most of my life too. I thought the same thing. The boys played great today, just couldn't keep up for the whole game. And then Tedford came along and for a brief period Cal was really good and I saw things from the other side. And I knew - we were never going to win those games. When you have enough experience winning, you know, sometimes your team comes out from the whistle and sometimes the effort isn't there until it needs to be. And in those cases it isn't about the lesser opponent. They were the same the whole game. It's about your team stepping up the intensity, and yes, intensity can come from just being determined to be more intense.
If Duke came out from the tip off, we would have been down 30 with 10 to play. No team can come out playing 100% every minute of every game, especially when they know they can beat their opponent any time they want to. I'll say it again, if Duke thought we were playing them straight up for 30, and we just ran out of gas, Duke would be concerned about their own team. They aren't. They know they weren't playing their best for 30. They know they stepped it up when they had to. That's what winners do.
Duke played an 8 man rotation. Cal played an 8 man rotation. Duke's top 5 played 31, 30, 28, 25, 23. Our top 5 played 33, 33, 27,25,24. One minute more per player. At the point you are saying we were gassed and they weren't, it was 12:30 in the morning Duke time and 9:30 at night Cal time. If we were so gassed and they weren't, I have a bone to pick with our strength and conditioning coach.
And you keep ignoring Dominican because coming at it from the winning side, you know that was all about Cal stepping up their intensity and none of that came from Cal being emotional or from Dominican ever being competitive in that game.
