I think Texas wins.Amazing ni have Purdue.

A r i z o n a Going down.

Purdue 3's vs Zona in paint

Welp

'Zona showed up in 2nd half big time.

sonofabear51 said:

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'Zona showed up in 2nd half big time.

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Go XPac!

When you watch the Elite Eight teams and compare the play to what we saw from Cal this year, what is the No. 1 thing (out of the 1,001 things) that they have and we don't? It's clear to me now that even if we had somehow made it to the Dance by winning a few more regular season games, we would have been a first round exit for sure.
The best teams all have a size and athleticism in the paint that Cal hasn't had since the Jaylen-Ivan era. Until we stop settling for meh centers and depending on our outside shooting to support us all the time (it won't), we will be stuck in mediocrity and the NIT.
No more excuses or pretending that a 5th year Dort will help us, reality check time. Madsen promised us big men with moves and hands, that's what we need next year. The 7-foot recruit looks good, we need someone more experienced from the portal.

barsad said:

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When you watch the Elite Eight teams and compare the play to what we saw from Cal this year, what is the No. 1 thing (out of the 1,001 things) that they have and we don't? It's clear to me now that even if we had somehow made it to the Dance by winning a few more regular season games, we would have been a first round exit for sure.
The best teams all have a size and athleticism in the paint that Cal hasn't had since the Jaylen-Ivan era. Until we stop settling for meh centers and depending on our outside shooting to support us all the time (it won't), we will be stuck in mediocrity and the NIT.
No more excuses or pretending that a 5th year Dort will help us, reality check time. Madsen promised us big men with moves and hands, that's what we need next year. The 7-foot recruit looks good, we need someone more experienced from the portal.

---

THis is a post for the ages.

Not really sure where MM "promised" that. What I do know is that the kind of bigs that are getting their team to the FF are 3 to 4 million a year kind of kids.

Until we have a REALISTIC discussion about what is required to advance anymore, whether Cal is committed to that, what needs to be in place to get there, and ESPECIALLY whether we can build a more broad rather than whale focused NIL structure in the mid-term I think this is a post that is near laughably funny in missing the forest for a single big tree (pun intended).

Get your wallet out. It is the Alpha and Omega to increasing talent to the level we need it to be to compete

"The people. United. Can never be defeated!"

Business 101 says, "No".

socaltownie said:

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barsad said:

---

When you watch the Elite Eight teams and compare the play to what we saw from Cal this year, what is the No. 1 thing (out of the 1,001 things) that they have and we don't? It's clear to me now that even if we had somehow made it to the Dance by winning a few more regular season games, we would have been a first round exit for sure.
The best teams all have a size and athleticism in the paint that Cal hasn't had since the Jaylen-Ivan era. Until we stop settling for meh centers and depending on our outside shooting to support us all the time (it won't), we will be stuck in mediocrity and the NIT.
No more excuses or pretending that a 5th year Dort will help us, reality check time. Madsen promised us big men with moves and hands, that's what we need next year. The 7-foot recruit looks good, we need someone more experienced from the portal.

---

THis is a post for the ages.

Not really sure where MM "promised" that. What I do know is that the kind of bigs that are getting their team to the FF are 3 to 4 million a year kind of kids.

Until we have a REALISTIC discussion about what is required to advance anymore, whether Cal is committed to that, what needs to be in place to get there, and ESPECIALLY whether we can build a more broad rather than whale focused NIL structure in the mid-term I think this is a post that is near laughably funny in missing the forest for a single big tree (pun intended).

Get your wallet out. It is the Alpha and Omega to increasing talent to the level we need it to be to compete

---

A big-time NIL budget requires buy in, year in and year out, from a group of donors who are each giving six figures or low seven figures for NIL.

It was reported that North Carolina fired Hubert Davis because basketball donors informed the administration that their NIL funding would drastically decrease for next season if Davis was retained.

"Basketball donors" - that's another hill to climb. The best funded teams have major donors who specifically fund basketball. They're not asking big donors to give less to football so that basketball can have more. Cal better not be doing that, either.

socaltownie said:

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barsad said:

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When you watch the Elite Eight teams and compare the play to what we saw from Cal this year, what is the No. 1 thing (out of the 1,001 things) that they have and we don't? It's clear to me now that even if we had somehow made it to the Dance by winning a few more regular season games, we would have been a first round exit for sure.
The best teams all have a size and athleticism in the paint that Cal hasn't had since the Jaylen-Ivan era. Until we stop settling for meh centers and depending on our outside shooting to support us all the time (it won't), we will be stuck in mediocrity and the NIT.
No more excuses or pretending that a 5th year Dort will help us, reality check time. Madsen promised us big men with moves and hands, that's what we need next year. The 7-foot recruit looks good, we need someone more experienced from the portal.

---

THis is a post for the ages.

Not really sure where MM "promised" that. What I do know is that the kind of bigs that are getting their team to the FF are 3 to 4 million a year kind of kids.

Until we have a REALISTIC discussion about what is required to advance anymore, whether Cal is committed to that, what needs to be in place to get there, and ESPECIALLY whether we can build a more broad rather than whale focused NIL structure in the mid-term I think this is a post that is near laughably funny in missing the forest for a single big tree (pun intended).

Get your wallet out. It is the Alpha and Omega to increasing talent to the level we need it to be to compete

---

As usual didn't answer the question, just focused on the same old money excuses.
Let me repeat the question so it's loud and clear.
WHAT is the No. 1 thing they have that we don't have (in player skills and coaching, NOT $$$)…. feel free to add, though it seems like it should be obvious, "within the money constraints that Cal has."
Saying we can never afford a top-tier player is both untrue and unhelpful to the exercise. We need solutions, not the peanut gallery or "let's collect more rich guys to donate."
Madsen didn't out-loud promise big men, Literal Larry, he was touted as someone who could recruit quality big men who wanted to learn from him and his NBA experience.

1. Size with athleticism
2. Quality depth

Cal is fine with Dort as our starting center, and undersized Camden at PF.

But the problem was our backup centers (Milos, Mantas and Dut) and "power forwards" being Campbell and Dorsey.

None of them could defend those roles and only Campbell could score)

Losing Rytis for season and Dort for many games (never 100% when he did return) killed our season

barsad said:

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socaltownie said:

---

barsad said:

---

When you watch the Elite Eight teams and compare the play to what we saw from Cal this year, what is the No. 1 thing (out of the 1,001 things) that they have and we don't? It's clear to me now that even if we had somehow made it to the Dance by winning a few more regular season games, we would have been a first round exit for sure.
The best teams all have a size and athleticism in the paint that Cal hasn't had since the Jaylen-Ivan era. Until we stop settling for meh centers and depending on our outside shooting to support us all the time (it won't), we will be stuck in mediocrity and the NIT.
No more excuses or pretending that a 5th year Dort will help us, reality check time. Madsen promised us big men with moves and hands, that's what we need next year. The 7-foot recruit looks good, we need someone more experienced from the portal.

---

THis is a post for the ages.

Not really sure where MM "promised" that. What I do know is that the kind of bigs that are getting their team to the FF are 3 to 4 million a year kind of kids.

Until we have a REALISTIC discussion about what is required to advance anymore, whether Cal is committed to that, what needs to be in place to get there, and ESPECIALLY whether we can build a more broad rather than whale focused NIL structure in the mid-term I think this is a post that is near laughably funny in missing the forest for a single big tree (pun intended).

Get your wallet out. It is the Alpha and Omega to increasing talent to the level we need it to be to compete

---

Aa usual didn't answer the question, just focused on the same old money excuses.
Let me repeat the question so it's loud and clear.
WHAT is the No. 1 thing they have that we don't have (in player skills and coaching, NOT $$$)…. feel free to add, though it seems like it should be obvious, "within the money constraints that Cal has."
Saying we can never afford a top-tier player is both untrue and unhelpful to the exercise. We need solutions, not the peanut gallery or "let's collect more rich guys to donate."
Madsen didn't out-loud promise big men, Literal Larry, he was touted as someone who could recruit quality big men who wanted to learn from him and his NBA experience.

---

So if I hear you right, portal priority is finding that 2nd center (relegate Mantas and Dut, who aren't ready), and then maybe filling a Camden and Camden-plus at PF? Sounds like a good plan.

Anyone happen to know how much Dort is paid at Cal, vs. how much centers are making in the best international leagues? Asking for a friend.
Also, is it realistic to expect Mitrovic to be ready to start in case Operation Find-A-Center fails?

Dort is i jury prone and ot a good offensive player. We can do better

oskidunker said:

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Dort is i jury prone and ot a good offensive player. We can do better

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Injury prone?
I only remember one injury while at Cal

HoopDreams said:

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1. Size with athleticism
2. Quality depth

Cal is fine with Dort as our starting center, and undersized Camden at PF.

But the problem was our backup centers (Milos, Mantas and Dut) and "power forwards" being Campbell and Dorsey.

None of them could defend those roles and only Campbell could score)

Losing Rytis for season and Dort for many games (never 100% when he did return) killed our season

barsad said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

barsad said:

---

When you watch the Elite Eight teams and compare the play to what we saw from Cal this year, what is the No. 1 thing (out of the 1,001 things) that they have and we don't? It's clear to me now that even if we had somehow made it to the Dance by winning a few more regular season games, we would have been a first round exit for sure.
The best teams all have a size and athleticism in the paint that Cal hasn't had since the Jaylen-Ivan era. Until we stop settling for meh centers and depending on our outside shooting to support us all the time (it won't), we will be stuck in mediocrity and the NIT.
No more excuses or pretending that a 5th year Dort will help us, reality check time. Madsen promised us big men with moves and hands, that's what we need next year. The 7-foot recruit looks good, we need someone more experienced from the portal.

---

THis is a post for the ages.

Not really sure where MM "promised" that. What I do know is that the kind of bigs that are getting their team to the FF are 3 to 4 million a year kind of kids.

Until we have a REALISTIC discussion about what is required to advance anymore, whether Cal is committed to that, what needs to be in place to get there, and ESPECIALLY whether we can build a more broad rather than whale focused NIL structure in the mid-term I think this is a post that is near laughably funny in missing the forest for a single big tree (pun intended).

Get your wallet out. It is the Alpha and Omega to increasing talent to the level we need it to be to compete

---

Aa usual didn't answer the question, just focused on the same old money excuses.
Let me repeat the question so it's loud and clear.
WHAT is the No. 1 thing they have that we don't have (in player skills and coaching, NOT $$$)…. feel free to add, though it seems like it should be obvious, "within the money constraints that Cal has."
Saying we can never afford a top-tier player is both untrue and unhelpful to the exercise. We need solutions, not the peanut gallery or "let's collect more rich guys to donate."
Madsen didn't out-loud promise big men, Literal Larry, he was touted as someone who could recruit quality big men who wanted to learn from him and his NBA experience.

---

---

Nope Don't get me wrong, I was a big fan of Camden - lots of talent and always played hard. But very rarely are you going to make the big dance with an undersized PF. And to Barsad's point, if somehow you sneak in you're not going to go anywhere. If you don't have a PF with strenght and decent athleticism you're gonna get beat up, a common theme to our losses this year.

We would not have "snuck in" if we had Rytis and Dort all season

We had the horses to make the NCAA and advance with those two healthy

The problem was we had no back up bigs who could defend or rebound when Dort and Camden was out. That lost us games

If the question was to advance to the elite eight my answer would be different

RedlessWardrobe said:

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HoopDreams said:

---

1. Size with athleticism
2. Quality depth

Cal is fine with Dort as our starting center, and undersized Camden at PF.

But the problem was our backup centers (Milos, Mantas and Dut) and "power forwards" being Campbell and Dorsey.

None of them could defend those roles and only Campbell could score)

Losing Rytis for season and Dort for many games (never 100% when he did return) killed our season

barsad said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

barsad said:

---

When you watch the Elite Eight teams and compare the play to what we saw from Cal this year, what is the No. 1 thing (out of the 1,001 things) that they have and we don't? It's clear to me now that even if we had somehow made it to the Dance by winning a few more regular season games, we would have been a first round exit for sure.
The best teams all have a size and athleticism in the paint that Cal hasn't had since the Jaylen-Ivan era. Until we stop settling for meh centers and depending on our outside shooting to support us all the time (it won't), we will be stuck in mediocrity and the NIT.
No more excuses or pretending that a 5th year Dort will help us, reality check time. Madsen promised us big men with moves and hands, that's what we need next year. The 7-foot recruit looks good, we need someone more experienced from the portal.

---

THis is a post for the ages.

Not really sure where MM "promised" that. What I do know is that the kind of bigs that are getting their team to the FF are 3 to 4 million a year kind of kids.

Until we have a REALISTIC discussion about what is required to advance anymore, whether Cal is committed to that, what needs to be in place to get there, and ESPECIALLY whether we can build a more broad rather than whale focused NIL structure in the mid-term I think this is a post that is near laughably funny in missing the forest for a single big tree (pun intended).

Get your wallet out. It is the Alpha and Omega to increasing talent to the level we need it to be to compete

---

Aa usual didn't answer the question, just focused on the same old money excuses.
Let me repeat the question so it's loud and clear.
WHAT is the No. 1 thing they have that we don't have (in player skills and coaching, NOT $$$)…. feel free to add, though it seems like it should be obvious, "within the money constraints that Cal has."
Saying we can never afford a top-tier player is both untrue and unhelpful to the exercise. We need solutions, not the peanut gallery or "let's collect more rich guys to donate."
Madsen didn't out-loud promise big men, Literal Larry, he was touted as someone who could recruit quality big men who wanted to learn from him and his NBA experience.

---

---

Nope Don't get me wrong, I was a big fan of Camden - lots of talent and always played hard. But very rarely are you going to make the big dance with an undersized PF. And to Barsad's point, if somehow you sneak in you're not going to go anywhere. If you don't have a PF with strenght and decent athleticism you're gonna get beat up, a common theme to our losses this year.

---

HoopDreams said:

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We would not have "snuck in" if we had Rytis and Dort all season

We had the horses to make the NCAA and advance with those two healthy.

---

I agree with what you've said for the most part, HoopD, but not this part.
Rytis was known for defense, a scrappy player, but not game-changing. Every time Dort posted up and received an entry pass (wasn't that often), I would make a face knowing that whatever move was coming would be way off or he was about to get stripped.
Those two could not - and equivalent players next year will not - get us anywhere near the Round of 32, which should be the team goal.

So how did we beat NCAA teams UCLA on a neutral court and Miami on their court?

Both teams advanced to the second round

barsad said:

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HoopDreams said:

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We would not have "snuck in" if we had Rytis and Dort all season

We had the horses to make the NCAA and advance with those two healthy.

---

I agree with what you've said for the most part, HoopD, but not this part.
Rytis was known for defense, a scrappy player, but not game-changing. Every time Dort posted up and received an entry pass (wasn't that often), I would make a face knowing that whatever move was coming would be way off or he was about to get stripped.
Those two could not - and equivalent players next year will not - get us anywhere near the Round of 32, which should be the team goal.

---

barsad said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

barsad said:

---

When you watch the Elite Eight teams and compare the play to what we saw from Cal this year, what is the No. 1 thing (out of the 1,001 things) that they have and we don't? It's clear to me now that even if we had somehow made it to the Dance by winning a few more regular season games, we would have been a first round exit for sure.
The best teams all have a size and athleticism in the paint that Cal hasn't had since the Jaylen-Ivan era. Until we stop settling for meh centers and depending on our outside shooting to support us all the time (it won't), we will be stuck in mediocrity and the NIT.
No more excuses or pretending that a 5th year Dort will help us, reality check time. Madsen promised us big men with moves and hands, that's what we need next year. The 7-foot recruit looks good, we need someone more experienced from the portal.

---

THis is a post for the ages.

Not really sure where MM "promised" that. What I do know is that the kind of bigs that are getting their team to the FF are 3 to 4 million a year kind of kids.

Until we have a REALISTIC discussion about what is required to advance anymore, whether Cal is committed to that, what needs to be in place to get there, and ESPECIALLY whether we can build a more broad rather than whale focused NIL structure in the mid-term I think this is a post that is near laughably funny in missing the forest for a single big tree (pun intended).

Get your wallet out. It is the Alpha and Omega to increasing talent to the level we need it to be to compete

---

As usual didn't answer the question, just focused on the same old money excuses.
Let me repeat the question so it's loud and clear.
WHAT is the No. 1 thing they have that we don't have (in player skills and coaching, NOT $$$)…. feel free to add, though it seems like it should be obvious, "within the money constraints that Cal has."
Saying we can never afford a top-tier player is both untrue and unhelpful to the exercise. We need solutions, not the peanut gallery or "let's collect more rich guys to donate."
Madsen didn't out-loud promise big men, Literal Larry, he was touted as someone who could recruit quality big men who wanted to learn from him and his NBA experience.

---

Hah...

You wrote.

" No more settling for meh centers and depending on our outside shooting to support us all the time (it won't), we will be stuck in mediocrity and the NIT.
No more excuses or pretending that a 5th year Dort will help us, reality check time. Madsen promised us big men with moves and hands, that's what we need next year. The 7-foot recruit looks good, we need someone more experienced from the portal."

That is what you get with a 4 Million NIL budget. This is NOT rocket science. The current game has a premium on forwards who can bang and ideally also stretch the defense. Those guys command a HUGE premium. We get projects like Dort or Illic or the Serb because they are in our budget.

I don't think you have a clue as to the financial gap between Us and the teams that will be playing next weekend. Until that changes (either because we step up or there is compression of salaries through a semi-hard cap it is what it is).

I just don't get why a Cal fan would make an argument that we're permanent non-contenders, that's all. Why even post here if we're too poor to buy any quality players? We're not going to magically double or triple our NIL next year, this is what we're living with.

I think you should open your mind a bit to the possibility that there's undiscovered or undeveloped talent in the universe, a guy who's not yet worth $3 mil but will be after one or two years (we only need him for one).
Good data on NIL budgets is hard to come by, but if you believe the study that On3 cites here
https://www.on3.com/nil/news/college-basketball-nil-spending-surges-932-5-million-2025-26-season/
we are spending less than other average P5 schools and about the same as conferences like the Atlantic 10, Mountain West and American.
From the article:
"The power conferences the Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, SEC and Big East spend between $7 million and $10 million on a roster, on average, according to Opendorse. For comparison, power conference women's basketball rosters average between $1 million and $5 million.

From there, the "B Tier" rosters in men's basketball cost between $2 million and $5 million. Conferences in that category include the American, Atlantic 10, Mountain West, Pac-12 and Horizon League. Other low- and mid-major leagues have rosters between $1 million and $2 million in the "C Tier."
……
Now, look at your bracket and tell me if any schools in the B tier made it to the Round of 32.
If St. Louis and TCU can do it, why can't we?

barsad said:

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I just don't get why a Cal fan would make an argument that we're permanent non-contenders, that's all. Why even post here if we're too poor to buy any quality players? We're not going to magically double or triple our NIL next year, this is what we're living with.

I think you should open your mind a bit to the possibility that there's undiscovered or undeveloped talent in the universe, a guy who's not yet worth $3 mil but will be after one or two years (we only need him for one).
Good data on NIL budgets is hard to come by, but if you believe the study that On3 cites here
https://www.on3.com/nil/news/college-basketball-nil-spending-surges-932-5-million-2025-26-season/
we are spending less than other average P5 schools and about the same as conferences like the Atlantic 10, Mountain West and American.
From the article:
"The power conferences the Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, SEC and Big East spend between $7 million and $10 million on a roster, on average, according to Opendorse. For comparison, power conference women's basketball rosters average between $1 million and $5 million.

From there, the "B Tier" rosters in men's basketball cost between $2 million and $5 million. Conferences in that category include the American, Atlantic 10, Mountain West, Pac-12 and Horizon League. Other low- and mid-major leagues have rosters between $1 million and $2 million in the "C Tier."
……
Now, look at your bracket and tell me if any schools in the B tier made it to the Round of 32.
If St. Louis and TCU can do it, why can't we?

---

Again - old school thinking. and not giving MM NEARLY enough credit for what he is doing.

: there's undiscovered or undeveloped talent in the universe, a guy who's not yet worth $3 mil but will be after one or two years"

That is precisely what we did with Ames, Pippen, arguably Dort, Definitely Tyson (who got his bag from the NBA). Madsen _IS_ identifying undervalued players and developing their game. He is really good at it. Maybe elite.

But once you get them good you have to retain them. $$$. Meanwhile for what your interesting once a year observations of the tournie helped you discover - teams with $$$ are simply buying bodies. Frames that CAN take 240 and lifting. Some work out. Some don't. But the market is essentially being set on future bets.

You mention TCU. They enjoy full House share _AND_ since 2023 have raised 40 million through their collective. I can't opine on the split between BB and FB.

SLU is a more interesting story. I appreciate what they have done to build program culture. But I would remind you of the the issue of MM vs. P4. SLU would NOT be able to get to 500 in the ACC with that roster. Over time people look at film and figure out how to iso your weak links (and we saw this as the season went on against CAL). At that point talent takes over. Yes, during the tournament MM can steal a game. BB has variance. No time to really prepare (you can break down film but you gotta walk guys through stuff and have maybe a practice to do it and HOPE it sticks).

Cal COULD compete in something like the A10 and do well. Maybe steal a gasme or 2 come tournie time.

But I have been VILLIFIED on these boards for questioning the orthodoxy of staying in the P4 at all costs and investing all in with football in the HOPE of getting promoted when the next time comes. It is lonely. And it is where we are so I don't feel like yelling about it anymore. There is NO realistic scenario - baring a billionaire stepping up - for Cal to have an upper half ACC budget. There is no hope without an upper half ACC budget of safely getting into the tournament. And, should lightening strike, there is NO HOPE without that budget of RETAINING an underclassman who lead you to a 25+ win season.

The above has been stated (in much kinder words) by the powers that be. Disagree - take it up with SB