The pipeline to relevance.

stu said:

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HearstMining said:

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Of course, the concern is that Madsen will ultimately tire of this annual rebuild routine

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I'm afraid pretty nearly every program will have the same problem. Openings at the few who don't will be infrequent and will attract the very best candidates.

---

Agreed, the blue bloods have actually been in the "new team every year" paradigm since before the Portal and NIL, now it is the case at most schools. Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain, Maybe he wants that at some point, but I doubt it.

You forgot Ames

HoopDreams said:

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You forgot Ames

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And Dort! He may have a lower ceiling than the others, but his first year at Cal, he looked like he'd never played organized basketball at any level and he improved to be an important contributor this past season.

calumnus said:

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stu said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Of course, the concern is that Madsen will ultimately tire of this annual rebuild routine

---

I'm afraid pretty nearly every program will have the same problem. Openings at the few who don't will be infrequent and will attract the very best candidates.

---

Agreed, the blue bloods have actually been in the "new team every year" paradigm since before the Portal and NIL, now it is the case at most schools. Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain, Maybe he wants that at some point, but I doubt it.

---

This plus many

There really are almost NO schools that have roster stability. i do not doubt madsen is tired about rebuilding every year. But I think that means, at present, that college coaching is getting to him. The coaches that thrive in the new environment maybe those that mentally get themselves to the idea that this is the new reality, embrace it, and then build systems that best exploit the new landscape. An objective view would see that if Kentucky and even Illinois are turning over rosters every year to this extent we are in a brave new world.

Then MM criticism become not enough NIL $$$....not that circumstances are forcing him to spend it.

calumnus said:

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stu said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Of course, the concern is that Madsen will ultimately tire of this annual rebuild routine

---

I'm afraid pretty nearly every program will have the same problem. Openings at the few who don't will be infrequent and will attract the very best candidates.

---

Agreed, the blue bloods have actually been in the "new team every year" paradigm since before the Portal and NIL, now it is the case at most schools. Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain, Maybe he wants that at some point, but I doubt it.

---

Saying the "new team every year" paradigm is nothing new is oversimplifying the situation. Madsen faces significant hurdles when rebuilding that the blue bloods don't:

Blue bloods: Have a heritage of success over the last 5-10 years (that's as far as players look back). When Duke/UNC/Michigan/UConn calls, even 5-star kids pick up the phone. Also have alumni who are basketball fanatics and open their wallets to prove it.
Cal: No record of SUSTAINED success since . . . SFCityBear was a student. Jaylen Brown was a one-season blip. Jason Kidd was on the cover of SI but he's 53 years-old! And Madsen is best known for breaking out his moves on the stage with his Laker teammates. As far as donations and alumni, many seem to have an inverse relationship between their net worth and their interest in Cal sports. I'm not blaming them since Cal pretty much ignored their alumni up until the 1990s when the state legislature tightened the purse-strings - only then did Cal try to gin up the school spirit thing and at least on the athletics side, they're still not good at it.

So, the point is that Madsen has a tougher row to hoe than many of his peers. He didn't start out great, but he's getting better at both recruiting, team development, and player development. He's on an upward swing while guys like Pasternak have plateaued. My main criticism is that Madsen should have started going overseas sooner.

HearstMining said:

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Of course, the concern is that Madsen will ultimately tire of this annual rebuild routine

---

I'm afraid pretty nearly every program will have the same problem. Openings at the few who don't will be infrequent and will attract the very best candidates.

---

Agreed, the blue bloods have actually been in the "new team every year" paradigm since before the Portal and NIL, now it is the case at most schools. Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain, Maybe he wants that at some point, but I doubt it.

---

Saying the "new team every year" paradigm is nothing new is oversimplifying the situation. Madsen faces significant hurdles when rebuilding that the blue bloods don't:

Blue bloods: Have a heritage of success over the last 5-10 years (that's as far as players look back). When Duke/UNC/Michigan/UConn calls, even 5-star kids pick up the phone. Also have alumni who are basketball fanatics and open their wallets to prove it.
Cal: No record of SUSTAINED success since . . . SFCityBear was a student. Jaylen Brown was a one-season blip. Jason Kidd was on the cover of SI but he's 53 years-old! And Madsen is best known for breaking out his moves on the stage with his Laker teammates. As far as donations and alumni, many seem to have an inverse relationship between their net worth and their interest in Cal sports. I'm not blaming them since Cal pretty much ignored their alumni up until the 1990s when the state legislature tightened the purse-strings - only then did Cal try to gin up the school spirit thing and at least on the athletics side, they're still not good at it.

So, the point is that Madsen has a tougher row to hoe than many of his peers. He didn't start out great, but he's getting better at both recruiting, team development, and player development. He's on an upward swing while guys like Pasternak have plateaued. My main criticism is that Madsen should have started going overseas sooner.

---

My first point was just about roster churn. Every coach has that now, even the blood bloods.

However, what I aIso also said is "Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain." That explicitly recognizes that it is easier to build a top team each year at a blue blood and that Madsens' job in doing so at Cal is tougher. No one is saying otherwise, certainly not me. I definitely agree that it would be easier for Madsen to build a Top Tournament team at Kentucky or Duke. No question.

I just also think he is happy where he is and with the challenge Cal presents.

calumnus said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Of course, the concern is that Madsen will ultimately tire of this annual rebuild routine

---

I'm afraid pretty nearly every program will have the same problem. Openings at the few who don't will be infrequent and will attract the very best candidates.

---

Agreed, the blue bloods have actually been in the "new team every year" paradigm since before the Portal and NIL, now it is the case at most schools. Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain, Maybe he wants that at some point, but I doubt it.

---

Saying the "new team every year" paradigm is nothing new is oversimplifying the situation. Madsen faces significant hurdles when rebuilding that the blue bloods don't:

Blue bloods: Have a heritage of success over the last 5-10 years (that's as far as players look back). When Duke/UNC/Michigan/UConn calls, even 5-star kids pick up the phone. Also have alumni who are basketball fanatics and open their wallets to prove it.
Cal: No record of SUSTAINED success since . . . SFCityBear was a student. Jaylen Brown was a one-season blip. Jason Kidd was on the cover of SI but he's 53 years-old! And Madsen is best known for breaking out his moves on the stage with his Laker teammates. As far as donations and alumni, many seem to have an inverse relationship between their net worth and their interest in Cal sports. I'm not blaming them since Cal pretty much ignored their alumni up until the 1990s when the state legislature tightened the purse-strings - only then did Cal try to gin up the school spirit thing and at least on the athletics side, they're still not good at it.

So, the point is that Madsen has a tougher row to hoe than many of his peers. He didn't start out great, but he's getting better at both recruiting, team development, and player development. He's on an upward swing while guys like Pasternak have plateaued. My main criticism is that Madsen should have started going overseas sooner.

---

My first point was just about roster churn. Every coach has that now, even the blood bloods.

However, what I aIso also said is "Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain." That explicitly recognizes that it is easier to build a top team each year at a blue blood and that Madsens' job in doing so at Cal is tougher. No one is saying otherwise, certainly not me. I definitely agree that it would be easier for Madsen to build a Top Tournament team at Kentucky or Duke. No question.

I just also think he is happy where he is and with the challenge Cal presents.

---

I can see that my first sentence was critical and that wasn't my intent. I was trying to add perspective by pointing out how Madsen had numerous disadvantages compared to his coaching peers, especially given the hell-hole that he had to dig out of following the Fox regime. I hope you're correct, since I basically like the guy, especially since he is now running a cogent offensive strategy and even more importantly, has gotten his team to play defense.

HearstMining said:

---

calumnus said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Of course, the concern is that Madsen will ultimately tire of this annual rebuild routine

---

I'm afraid pretty nearly every program will have the same problem. Openings at the few who don't will be infrequent and will attract the very best candidates.

---

Agreed, the blue bloods have actually been in the "new team every year" paradigm since before the Portal and NIL, now it is the case at most schools. Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain, Maybe he wants that at some point, but I doubt it.

---

Saying the "new team every year" paradigm is nothing new is oversimplifying the situation. Madsen faces significant hurdles when rebuilding that the blue bloods don't:

Blue bloods: Have a heritage of success over the last 5-10 years (that's as far as players look back). When Duke/UNC/Michigan/UConn calls, even 5-star kids pick up the phone. Also have alumni who are basketball fanatics and open their wallets to prove it.
Cal: No record of SUSTAINED success since . . . SFCityBear was a student. Jaylen Brown was a one-season blip. Jason Kidd was on the cover of SI but he's 53 years-old! And Madsen is best known for breaking out his moves on the stage with his Laker teammates. As far as donations and alumni, many seem to have an inverse relationship between their net worth and their interest in Cal sports. I'm not blaming them since Cal pretty much ignored their alumni up until the 1990s when the state legislature tightened the purse-strings - only then did Cal try to gin up the school spirit thing and at least on the athletics side, they're still not good at it.

So, the point is that Madsen has a tougher row to hoe than many of his peers. He didn't start out great, but he's getting better at both recruiting, team development, and player development. He's on an upward swing while guys like Pasternak have plateaued. My main criticism is that Madsen should have started going overseas sooner.

---

My first point was just about roster churn. Every coach has that now, even the blood bloods.

However, what I aIso also said is "Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain." That explicitly recognizes that it is easier to build a top team each year at a blue blood and that Madsens' job in doing so at Cal is tougher. No one is saying otherwise, certainly not me. I definitely agree that it would be easier for Madsen to build a Top Tournament team at Kentucky or Duke. No question.

I just also think he is happy where he is and with the challenge Cal presents.

---

I can see that my first sentence was critical and that wasn't my intent. I was trying to add perspective by pointing out how Madsen had numerous disadvantages compared to his coaching peers, especially given the hell-hole that he had to dig out of following the Fox regime. I hope you're correct, since I basically like the guy, especially since he is now running a cogent offensive strategy and even more importantly, has gotten his team to play defense.

---

I like him (since he has embraced Cal) and think he is doing a solid job given the resources available. I am happy he is staying but do not think he is so irreplaceable that I would be upset if he left for a program further up the food chain either. I just don't think he will.

He is making $millions and is raising his family in a place he loves, in the place he grew up. He has job security if he keeps us on the same trajectory, even if progress is slow. The only thing that would negate that is if his wife and kids were not happy there and wanted to move back to Utah, but subsequent events indicate he/they are happy where they are. The college jobs that were going to open up soon when we hired him that I thought he might take, Stanford and BYU, he passed on (and got extensions from Knowlton, ala Wilcox).

Maybe he would want the challenge, money and prestige of the NBA if they ever came calling? Warriors, Lakers or Utah? Who knows. It is up to the whims of NBA GMs and owners, but it would also mean that he had raised Cal to a perennial Tournament team. I'd be good with that.

BeachedBear said:

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01Bear said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Of course, the concern is that Madsen will ultimately tire of this annual rebuild routine

---

I'm afraid pretty nearly every program will have the same problem. Openings at the few who don't will be infrequent and will attract the very best candidates.

---

Agreed, the blue bloods have actually been in the "new team every year" paradigm since before the Portal and NIL, now it is the case at most schools. Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain, Maybe he wants that at some point, but I doubt it.

---

Saying the "new team every year" paradigm is nothing new is oversimplifying the situation. Madsen faces significant hurdles when rebuilding that the blue bloods don't:

Blue bloods: Have a heritage of success over the last 5-10 years (that's as far as players look back). When Duke/UNC/Michigan/UConn calls, even 5-star kids pick up the phone. Also have alumni who are basketball fanatics and open their wallets to prove it.
Cal: No record of SUSTAINED success since . . . SFCityBear was a student. Jaylen Brown was a one-season blip. Jason Kidd was on the cover of SI but he's 53 years-old! And Madsen is best known for breaking out his moves on the stage with his Laker teammates. As far as donations and alumni, many seem to have an inverse relationship between their net worth and their interest in Cal sports. I'm not blaming them since Cal pretty much ignored their alumni up until the 1990s when the state legislature tightened the purse-strings - only then did Cal try to gin up the school spirit thing and at least on the athletics side, they're still not good at it.

So, the point is that Madsen has a tougher row to hoe than many of his peers. He didn't start out great, but he's getting better at both recruiting, team development, and player development. He's on an upward swing while guys like Pasternak have plateaued. My main criticism is that Madsen should have started going overseas sooner.

---

Does anyone know if the Cal MBB program ever sends coaches on recruiting trips to Australia and Asia? If so, it would be a great opportunity to tap into the international Cal alumni groups. I have a buddy (fellow Cal alumnus) in Hong Kong who informed me that the Cal alumni network is really strong in HK, China, and Singapore. If that's the case, I'm thinking it'd be a great opportunity for Cal MBB to drum up some money by targeting Cal alumni there. (Let's face it, Asians like/love basketball much more so than they do football, so Cal's MBB, and also Cal's WBB, could get probably get some donations that are not available to Cal Football.)

---

Madsen made this trip before last season, I believe (Hong Kong?). This year went to Lithuania.

---

Excellent! Do you (or anyone else) know if he met up with any alumni to get some donations for the program?

01Bear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

01Bear said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Of course, the concern is that Madsen will ultimately tire of this annual rebuild routine

---

I'm afraid pretty nearly every program will have the same problem. Openings at the few who don't will be infrequent and will attract the very best candidates.

---

Agreed, the blue bloods have actually been in the "new team every year" paradigm since before the Portal and NIL, now it is the case at most schools. Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain, Maybe he wants that at some point, but I doubt it.

---

Saying the "new team every year" paradigm is nothing new is oversimplifying the situation. Madsen faces significant hurdles when rebuilding that the blue bloods don't:

Blue bloods: Have a heritage of success over the last 5-10 years (that's as far as players look back). When Duke/UNC/Michigan/UConn calls, even 5-star kids pick up the phone. Also have alumni who are basketball fanatics and open their wallets to prove it.
Cal: No record of SUSTAINED success since . . . SFCityBear was a student. Jaylen Brown was a one-season blip. Jason Kidd was on the cover of SI but he's 53 years-old! And Madsen is best known for breaking out his moves on the stage with his Laker teammates. As far as donations and alumni, many seem to have an inverse relationship between their net worth and their interest in Cal sports. I'm not blaming them since Cal pretty much ignored their alumni up until the 1990s when the state legislature tightened the purse-strings - only then did Cal try to gin up the school spirit thing and at least on the athletics side, they're still not good at it.

So, the point is that Madsen has a tougher row to hoe than many of his peers. He didn't start out great, but he's getting better at both recruiting, team development, and player development. He's on an upward swing while guys like Pasternak have plateaued. My main criticism is that Madsen should have started going overseas sooner.

---

Does anyone know if the Cal MBB program ever sends coaches on recruiting trips to Australia and Asia? If so, it would be a great opportunity to tap into the international Cal alumni groups. I have a buddy (fellow Cal alumnus) in Hong Kong who informed me that the Cal alumni network is really strong in HK, China, and Singapore. If that's the case, I'm thinking it'd be a great opportunity for Cal MBB to drum up some money by targeting Cal alumni there. (Let's face it, Asians like/love basketball much more so than they do football, so Cal's MBB, and also Cal's WBB, could get probably get some donations that are not available to Cal Football.)

---

Madsen made this trip before last season, I believe (Hong Kong?). This year went to Lithuania.

---

Excellent! Do you (or anyone else) know if he met up with any alumni to get some donations for the program?

---

There were videos posted of his Asia trip from BI members (alumni). I can't speak to donations. These events are usually coordinated through local alumni groups.

BeachedBear said:

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01Bear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

01Bear said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

Of course, the concern is that Madsen will ultimately tire of this annual rebuild routine

---

I'm afraid pretty nearly every program will have the same problem. Openings at the few who don't will be infrequent and will attract the very best candidates.

---

Agreed, the blue bloods have actually been in the "new team every year" paradigm since before the Portal and NIL, now it is the case at most schools. Some schools have more resources and are further up the food chain, Maybe he wants that at some point, but I doubt it.

---

Saying the "new team every year" paradigm is nothing new is oversimplifying the situation. Madsen faces significant hurdles when rebuilding that the blue bloods don't:

Blue bloods: Have a heritage of success over the last 5-10 years (that's as far as players look back). When Duke/UNC/Michigan/UConn calls, even 5-star kids pick up the phone. Also have alumni who are basketball fanatics and open their wallets to prove it.
Cal: No record of SUSTAINED success since . . . SFCityBear was a student. Jaylen Brown was a one-season blip. Jason Kidd was on the cover of SI but he's 53 years-old! And Madsen is best known for breaking out his moves on the stage with his Laker teammates. As far as donations and alumni, many seem to have an inverse relationship between their net worth and their interest in Cal sports. I'm not blaming them since Cal pretty much ignored their alumni up until the 1990s when the state legislature tightened the purse-strings - only then did Cal try to gin up the school spirit thing and at least on the athletics side, they're still not good at it.

So, the point is that Madsen has a tougher row to hoe than many of his peers. He didn't start out great, but he's getting better at both recruiting, team development, and player development. He's on an upward swing while guys like Pasternak have plateaued. My main criticism is that Madsen should have started going overseas sooner.

---

Does anyone know if the Cal MBB program ever sends coaches on recruiting trips to Australia and Asia? If so, it would be a great opportunity to tap into the international Cal alumni groups. I have a buddy (fellow Cal alumnus) in Hong Kong who informed me that the Cal alumni network is really strong in HK, China, and Singapore. If that's the case, I'm thinking it'd be a great opportunity for Cal MBB to drum up some money by targeting Cal alumni there. (Let's face it, Asians like/love basketball much more so than they do football, so Cal's MBB, and also Cal's WBB, could get probably get some donations that are not available to Cal Football.)

---

Madsen made this trip before last season, I believe (Hong Kong?). This year went to Lithuania.

---

Excellent! Do you (or anyone else) know if he met up with any alumni to get some donations for the program?

---

There were videos posted of his Asia trip from BI members (alumni). I can't speak to donations. These events are usually coordinated through local alumni groups.

---

Thanks, again!

> Church of Madsen Has Made Me a Believer

hear where you're coming from and good luck
# ot: religion don't float my boat

smh said:

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> Church of Madsen Has Made Me a Believer

hear where you're coming from and good luck
# ot: religion don't float my boat

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Being a fan has enough similarity to being a believer to make the metaphor work.

stu said:

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smh said:

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> Church of Madsen Has Made Me a Believer

hear where you're coming from and good luck
# ot: religion don't float my boat

---

Being a fan has enough similarity to being a believer to make the metaphor work.

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Someone once asked a friend i used to go to Harmon Gym with what religion he was. He said "my church is Harmon Gym and the Pastor is Lou Campanelli." He has since passed away soI hope Lou was there to meet him wearing the Velvet Jacket

smh said:

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> Church of Madsen Has Made Me a Believer

hear where you're coming from and good luck
# ot: religion don't float my boat

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# ot: nobody cares.