Obviously the furds are not going to play the nil game. They've lost six players to the portal including their best one Jalen Thompson. I don't feel any schadenfreude anymore. I guess we're still tied at the hip. I talked to a couple of bird fans I know and they seem inclined to think that both of us I mean Cal and fuds going to go back to the revamped pack 12. Hmmmm
Furds disastrous portal season.
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Last: 1 mo ago by socaltownie
Ccajon2 said:
Obviously the furds are not going to play the nil game. They've lost six players to the portal including their best one Jalen Thompson. I don't feel any schadenfreude anymore. I guess we're still tied at the hip. I talked to a couple of bird fans I know and they seem inclined to think that both of us I mean Cal and fuds going to go back to the revamped pack 12. Hmmmm
Furd BB is in implosion mode. It is a false parallel between Cal and them as we are playing "money ball" and our signees have strong upside potential.
As has been pointed out and discussed in detail over on the premium board - if Cal had even just upper half NIL compared to our ACC breathern, the MM discount that players are willing to give because of his track record in player development would have us a top 25-30 team. Really this is why those that can give significantly (5 figures should strongly consider it....and why cal should absolutely look to increase demand for premium seatting at Haas and link it to NIL donations
#movethebandbacktohalfcourt
Take care of your Chicken
Is their FB program also faltering? I get the impression that their new HC hire is a bit subpar.
There is no revamping of the P12 possible with Utah State, Texas St, CO St. etc, lipstick on a pig. The Big10 teams aren't coming back, neither are the 4 corner B12s.
There is no revamping of the P12 possible with Utah State, Texas St, CO St. etc, lipstick on a pig. The Big10 teams aren't coming back, neither are the 4 corner B12s.
Ccajon2 said:
Obviously the furds are not going to play the nil game. They've lost six players to the portal including their best one Jalen Thompson. I don't feel any schadenfreude anymore. I guess we're still tied at the hip. I talked to a couple of bird fans I know and they seem inclined to think that both of us I mean Cal and fuds going to go back to the revamped pack 12. Hmmmm
Well, on the football side, Cal has pushed in the chips about as much as it can and Lupoi has done an excellent job bringing in personnel. The danger for Cal in football is either 1. The coaching staff turns out to be a lot less effective at coaching than getting personnel and we still don't succeed at a high level after all this money comes in; or 2. The money does not continue to keep up after the excitement wears off.
If I were looking just at basketball, I might agree with your robber baron friends as I'm not convinced we are providing the level of support to succeed in the ACC, but Cal is clearly not going gently into the new Pac in football and football will drag basketball with it.
I, though, have thought for a long time that the most likely thing to happen is the ACC loses a couple of its major football programs but continues on with the remaining teams (including us) in kind of a second tier with the Big 12. I think this is a lot more likely than the total re-organization of conferences everyone seems to be expecting.
While I never root for Stanfurd to win, as long as we are still competing at the highest level, I hope they are, as well. Winning Big Game wouldn't be as fun if they were playing at a lower tier. Same for hoops.
BearlyCareAnymore said:Ccajon2 said:
Obviously the furds are not going to play the nil game. They've lost six players to the portal including their best one Jalen Thompson. I don't feel any schadenfreude anymore. I guess we're still tied at the hip. I talked to a couple of bird fans I know and they seem inclined to think that both of us I mean Cal and fuds going to go back to the revamped pack 12. Hmmmm
Well, on the football side, Cal has pushed in the chips about as much as it can and Lupoi has done an excellent job bringing in personnel. The danger for Cal in football is either 1. The coaching staff turns out to be a lot less effective at coaching than getting personnel and we still don't succeed at a high level after all this money comes in; or 2. The money does not continue to keep up after the excitement wears off.
If I were looking just at basketball, I might agree with your robber baron friends as I'm not convinced we are providing the level of support to succeed in the ACC, but Cal is clearly not going gently into the new Pac in football and football will drag basketball with it.
I, though, have thought for a long time that the most likely thing to happen is the ACC loses a couple of its major football programs but continues on with the remaining teams (including us) in kind of a second tier with the Big 12. I think this is a lot more likely than the total re-organization of conferences everyone seems to be expecting.
I share your concern about donations continuing to Cal's football program over the long term. Cal doesn't get a full share of ACC payout for, what, seven years? Yet expenses will continue to climb. If the ACC loses 2-3 top football programs, I think ESPN demands to renegotiate lower payments to the ACC as the value of the product to advertisers declines. Once this happens, it's anybody's guess as to the outcome.
Maybe the best of a bad situation would be for Cal football to generate enough interest (specifically, TV ratings) under Tosh that in the event of an ESPN-driven renegotiation, Cal can demand scrapping the old percentage and getting a full share sooner. I sort of feel like I'm whistling past the graveyard on that one . . .
The LSJU WBB team is also imploding. I'm guessing due to a combination of NIL and coaching.
Ccajon2 said:
Obviously the furds are not going to play the nil game. They've lost six players to the portal including their best one Jalen Thompson. I don't feel any schadenfreude anymore. I guess we're still tied at the hip. I talked to a couple of bird fans I know and they seem inclined to think that both of us I mean Cal and fuds going to go back to the revamped pack 12. Hmmmm
who else did Stanfurd lose to the portal? Thompson hasn't played much or done much for them? The huge loss is the Frosh PG to the pro's but they did have some highly rated recruits on the roster with some new ones coming for next season.
Lol- Football and basketball have not looked this good at the same time in decades. Were clearly ascending. Stop letting your personal lives reflect on outside glory. Its wonderful and beautiful for most of us. Cal is freaking Awesome right now.
TonyTiger said:
Lol- Football and basketball have not looked this good at the same time in decades. Were clearly ascending. Stop letting your personal lives reflect on outside glory. Its wonderful and beautiful for most of us. Cal is freaking Awesome right now.
LOL. Cal always dominates every, single off season, then they play the games....
HKBear97! said:TonyTiger said:
Lol- Football and basketball have not looked this good at the same time in decades. Were clearly ascending. Stop letting your personal lives reflect on outside glory. Its wonderful and beautiful for most of us. Cal is freaking Awesome right now.
LOL. Cal always dominates every, single off season, then they play the games....
yup, we are "wudda cuda, shuda U"
When in the last 60-years has Cal put up TV numbers that if adjusted for today would make us a no brainer to add for our TV value? We talk about TV ratings but I can't recall at anytime in my life when we were anywhere close to other blue bloods in that same way. We seem to structurally lack something, and I don't think it is winning. It is general student body apathy towards sports.
CALiforniALUM said:
When in the last 60-years has Cal put up TV numbers that if adjusted for today would make us a no brainer to add for our TV value? We talk about TV ratings but I can't recall at anytime in my life when we were anywhere close to other blue bloods in that same way. We seem to structurally lack something, and I don't think it is winning. It is general student body apathy towards sports.
"Other"?
wha, wha, what?
Blue laundry does not actually make a "blue blood".
CALiforniALUM said:
When in the last 60-years has Cal put up TV numbers that if adjusted for today would make us a no brainer to add for our TV value? We talk about TV ratings but I can't recall at anytime in my life when we were anywhere close to other blue bloods in that same way. We seem to structurally lack something, and I don't think it is winning. It is general student body apathy towards sports.
+1. It's one of the reasons why Cal had to scramble to find a conference after the Pac-12's demise. But don't worry, the groundbreaking and innovative new Strawberry Creek Studios will bring a cutting-edge collaboration to generate revenue and authentic storytelling that transforms engagement, redefining how Cal sports attracts fans and strategic partners. Don't take my word for it though, ask ChatGPT! LOL!
HKBear97! said:TonyTiger said:
Lol- Football and basketball have not looked this good at the same time in decades. Were clearly ascending. Stop letting your personal lives reflect on outside glory. Its wonderful and beautiful for most of us. Cal is freaking Awesome right now.
LOL. Cal always dominates every, single off season, then they play the games....
Do we even look good in the offseason? Since like 2010, the only times I've ever felt good about a Cal football or basketball team coming into the season were: 2015 football (best QB in the nation returning, NFL skill players, experienced defense), 2024 football (star RB, promising returning QB, good portal class, weak schedule); 2011 basketball and 2012 basketball (Crabbe and Cobb years), 2015 basketball (Wallace, Brown, Rabb + Montgomery's last good class), and 2016 basketball (Rabb, Bird returning, exciting 4 star PG in Charlie Moore).
It's damning that in 15 years and 30 possible seasons, I've only had any modicum of expectation for 6 teams.
concernedparent said:HKBear97! said:TonyTiger said:
Lol- Football and basketball have not looked this good at the same time in decades. Were clearly ascending. Stop letting your personal lives reflect on outside glory. Its wonderful and beautiful for most of us. Cal is freaking Awesome right now.
LOL. Cal always dominates every, single off season, then they play the games....
Do we even look good in the offseason? Since like 2010, the only times I've ever felt good about a Cal football or basketball team coming into the season were: 2015 football (best QB in the nation returning, NFL skill players, experienced defense), 2024 football (star RB, promising returning QB, good portal class, weak schedule); 2011 basketball and 2012 basketball (Crabbe and Cobb years), 2015 basketball (Wallace, Brown, Rabb + Montgomery's last good class), and 2016 basketball (Rabb, Bird returning, exciting 4 star PG in Charlie Moore).
It's damning that in 15 years and 30 possible seasons, I've only had any modicum of expectation for 6 teams.
No, but it doesn't stop many on these boards to declare every offseason that Cal did great - great coaching hires, amazing recruiting, more fundraising, moves "behind the scenes" to build the programs, unbelievable strength and conditioning program, etc., etc. Just look at this thread from last year about the football program - Fernando leaves and then.....
Personally, I no longer have any expectations each season and it's worked out great. Adopt Phil Dunphy's (Modern Family) approach when it comes to Cal sports - "The most amazing things that can happen to a human being will happen to you if you just lower your expectations."
Bobodeluxe said:
Blue laundry does not actually make a "blue blood".
It can when the dye bleeds.
They did lose 4 of their top 5 scorers to graduation/exhaustion of eligibility, but I'd argue that Agarwal is the best player of the four actual underclassmen who've transferred out. They did sign 5 HS seniors in the top 150 of the HS rankings, the best being Hakeem Olajuwon's son
247 has Furd's recruiting class ranked 17th nationally. Cal sitting at 107 today.
Calfan92 said:
247 has Furd's recruiting class ranked 17th nationally. Cal sitting at 107 today.
If that just freshies or does it include transfers?
HKBear97! said:concernedparent said:HKBear97! said:TonyTiger said:
Lol- Football and basketball have not looked this good at the same time in decades. Were clearly ascending. Stop letting your personal lives reflect on outside glory. Its wonderful and beautiful for most of us. Cal is freaking Awesome right now.
LOL. Cal always dominates every, single off season, then they play the games....
Do we even look good in the offseason? Since like 2010, the only times I've ever felt good about a Cal football or basketball team coming into the season were: 2015 football (best QB in the nation returning, NFL skill players, experienced defense), 2024 football (star RB, promising returning QB, good portal class, weak schedule); 2011 basketball and 2012 basketball (Crabbe and Cobb years), 2015 basketball (Wallace, Brown, Rabb + Montgomery's last good class), and 2016 basketball (Rabb, Bird returning, exciting 4 star PG in Charlie Moore).
It's damning that in 15 years and 30 possible seasons, I've only had any modicum of expectation for 6 teams.
No, but it doesn't stop many on these boards to declare every offseason that Cal did great - great coaching hires, amazing recruiting, more fundraising, moves "behind the scenes" to build the programs, unbelievable strength and conditioning program, etc., etc. Just look at this thread from last year about the football program - Fernando leaves and then.....
Personally, I no longer have any expectations each season and it's worked out great. Adopt Phil Dunphy's (Modern Family) approach when it comes to Cal sports - "The most amazing things that can happen to a human being will happen to you if you just lower your expectations."
Yes, I remember when there were people mad about the disrespect that people were showing us not predicting Madsen's first team was going to the tourney and when I questioned what that was based on they said you could extrapolate from our awesome recruiting class that we were tourney bound. Didn't quite work out that way. Same process repeated every year, including this one.
Freshies.
Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
BearlyCareAnymore said:HKBear97! said:concernedparent said:HKBear97! said:TonyTiger said:
Lol- Football and basketball have not looked this good at the same time in decades. Were clearly ascending. Stop letting your personal lives reflect on outside glory. Its wonderful and beautiful for most of us. Cal is freaking Awesome right now.
LOL. Cal always dominates every, single off season, then they play the games....
Do we even look good in the offseason? Since like 2010, the only times I've ever felt good about a Cal football or basketball team coming into the season were: 2015 football (best QB in the nation returning, NFL skill players, experienced defense), 2024 football (star RB, promising returning QB, good portal class, weak schedule); 2011 basketball and 2012 basketball (Crabbe and Cobb years), 2015 basketball (Wallace, Brown, Rabb + Montgomery's last good class), and 2016 basketball (Rabb, Bird returning, exciting 4 star PG in Charlie Moore).
It's damning that in 15 years and 30 possible seasons, I've only had any modicum of expectation for 6 teams.
No, but it doesn't stop many on these boards to declare every offseason that Cal did great - great coaching hires, amazing recruiting, more fundraising, moves "behind the scenes" to build the programs, unbelievable strength and conditioning program, etc., etc. Just look at this thread from last year about the football program - Fernando leaves and then.....
Personally, I no longer have any expectations each season and it's worked out great. Adopt Phil Dunphy's (Modern Family) approach when it comes to Cal sports - "The most amazing things that can happen to a human being will happen to you if you just lower your expectations."
Yes, I remember when there were people mad about the disrespect that people were showing us not predicting Madsen's first team was going to the tourney and when I questioned what that was based on they said you could extrapolate from our awesome recruiting class that we were tourney bound. Didn't quite work out that way. Same process repeated every year, including this one.
I can't recall anyone saying this and if some random people did, it certainly was not a commonly held belief. Madsen took over a team that had gone 3-29. No serious person thought his first team would go to the ncaa tournament or for that matter even the NIT.
And for the record, his first portal group was actually pretty good. Tyson, Kennedy and Aimaq were all solid or better (with true freshman Rodney Brown). The problem was that the roster Madsen took over was barren. The team improved to 13-19 - not nearly good enough but certainly a pretty good turnaround/accomplishment given the roster.
BearGoggles said:BearlyCareAnymore said:HKBear97! said:concernedparent said:HKBear97! said:TonyTiger said:
Lol- Football and basketball have not looked this good at the same time in decades. Were clearly ascending. Stop letting your personal lives reflect on outside glory. Its wonderful and beautiful for most of us. Cal is freaking Awesome right now.
LOL. Cal always dominates every, single off season, then they play the games....
Do we even look good in the offseason? Since like 2010, the only times I've ever felt good about a Cal football or basketball team coming into the season were: 2015 football (best QB in the nation returning, NFL skill players, experienced defense), 2024 football (star RB, promising returning QB, good portal class, weak schedule); 2011 basketball and 2012 basketball (Crabbe and Cobb years), 2015 basketball (Wallace, Brown, Rabb + Montgomery's last good class), and 2016 basketball (Rabb, Bird returning, exciting 4 star PG in Charlie Moore).
It's damning that in 15 years and 30 possible seasons, I've only had any modicum of expectation for 6 teams.
No, but it doesn't stop many on these boards to declare every offseason that Cal did great - great coaching hires, amazing recruiting, more fundraising, moves "behind the scenes" to build the programs, unbelievable strength and conditioning program, etc., etc. Just look at this thread from last year about the football program - Fernando leaves and then.....
Personally, I no longer have any expectations each season and it's worked out great. Adopt Phil Dunphy's (Modern Family) approach when it comes to Cal sports - "The most amazing things that can happen to a human being will happen to you if you just lower your expectations."
Yes, I remember when there were people mad about the disrespect that people were showing us not predicting Madsen's first team was going to the tourney and when I questioned what that was based on they said you could extrapolate from our awesome recruiting class that we were tourney bound. Didn't quite work out that way. Same process repeated every year, including this one.
I can't recall anyone saying this and if some random people did, it certainly was not a commonly held belief. Madsen took over a team that had gone 3-29. No serious person thought his first team would go to the ncaa tournament or for that matter even the NIT.
And for the record, his first portal group was actually pretty good. Tyson, Kennedy and Aimaq were all solid or better (with true freshman Rodney Brown). The problem was that the roster Madsen took over was barren. The team improved to 13-19 - not nearly good enough but certainly a pretty good turnaround/accomplishment given the roster.
I agree that no serious person would think that. There were a lot of unserious people. There was a specific thread asking what it would take for experts to take us seriously that posited just this point. I also had discussions with people who kept saying it was obvious we had made a home run hire (some of which were on the football board because they were using it as a reason to fire Wilcox) where I asked how they knew this before he had coached a game and I got this argument. (which, to one poster's credit, he admitted to being wrong about).
I would say that the other part of the cycle is after the fact arguing that no one ever said we would be as good as people said we would be.
To be clear, when I argued with people at the time, my point was that they were being very unfair to Madsen and setting unrealistic expectations, so I'm in no way criticizing Madsen or his first team.
Although, I have to say on the "the roster was barren" point, I don't think you can characterize that as the problem, because the returning roster in the second year was also barren, and the returning roster for the third year was barren, and the returning roster for the fourth year is close to barren, so I think that is the new normal.
stu said:Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
No.
Honestly, I no longer look more than a year out because we haven't kept a single player who had a truly successful year, so I think what they might develop into is kind of irrelevant.
BearlyCareAnymore said:stu said:Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
No.
Honestly, I no longer look more than a year out because we haven't kept a single player who had a truly successful year, so I think what they might develop into is kind of irrelevant.
True.
Dort may be the closest. He's stayed throughout Madsen's tenure and had a pretty good 25-26 season. Nobody qualifies for second place. Yet.
It's different on the women's side. Evelien stayed 4 years, Leilani and Michelle stayed 5, and next season's returning starters will be in their 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons at Cal.
stu said:BearlyCareAnymore said:stu said:Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
No.
Honestly, I no longer look more than a year out because we haven't kept a single player who had a truly successful year, so I think what they might develop into is kind of irrelevant.
True.
Dort may be the closest. He's stayed throughout Madsen's tenure and had a pretty good 25-26 season. Nobody qualifies for second place. Yet.
It's different on the women's side. Evelien stayed 4 years, Leilani and Michelle stayed 5, and next season's returning starters will be in their 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons at Cal.
GRRR....
THis is NOT mystery science theater. Cal's NIL budget is likely in the lower 1/3 if not lower 1/4 of the ACC. It probably had 35 to 40 P4 teams with greater BB NIL budget. For both strategic (and personal) reasons $$$ is being invested heavily in FB. BB is very much in Swim or sink mode on that - though it would be remiss not to recognize SB for adding to his plate for a sport that is not his first passion.
If you want year to year continuity pony up. Ask those with means to pony up. Press the Chancellor to pony up. Or expect year 5, 6, and 7 to resemble the first with our best players being grabbed by programs that can afford to 2-3x our best offer.
Take care of your Chicken
socaltownie said:stu said:BearlyCareAnymore said:stu said:Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
No.
Honestly, I no longer look more than a year out because we haven't kept a single player who had a truly successful year, so I think what they might develop into is kind of irrelevant.
True.
Dort may be the closest. He's stayed throughout Madsen's tenure and had a pretty good 25-26 season. Nobody qualifies for second place. Yet.
It's different on the women's side. Evelien stayed 4 years, Leilani and Michelle stayed 5, and next season's returning starters will be in their 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons at Cal.
GRRR....
THis is NOT mystery science theater. Cal's NIL budget is likely in the lower 1/3 if not lower 1/4 of the ACC. It probably had 35 to 40 P4 teams with greater BB NIL budget. For both strategic (and personal) reasons $$$ is being invested heavily in FB. BB is very much in Swim or sink mode on that - though it would be remiss not to recognize SB for adding to his plate for a sport that is not his first passion.
If you want year to year continuity pony up. Ask those with means to pony up. Press the Chancellor to pony up. Or expect year 5, 6, and 7 to resemble the first with our best players being grabbed by programs that can afford to 2-3x our best offer.
If we can't keep guys like Ames and Pippin, and I don't care if people think they were overpaid, we are severely limited in how far our program can develop. This isn't Kidd and Murray. We are talking solid, bubble team players. I don't see anyone in the current list of newcomers that is replacing them.
BearlyCareAnymore said:stu said:Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
No.
Honestly, I no longer look more than a year out because we haven't kept a single player who had a truly successful year, so I think what they might develop into is kind of irrelevant.
Again, I apologize if I'm coming off too positive in a negative thread, but look at the resultsevery one of those guys who left was developed well. From Tyson going in the first round to Scottie Pippen landing a $3 million deal to play against Michigan at Ohio State, they all moved on to better opportunities.
Mark Madsen may not be able to sell team chemistry or NCAA tournament appearances right now, but he can sell player developmentand when players develop, they take the next step. That's a positive outcome, not a negative one.
TonyTiger said:BearlyCareAnymore said:stu said:Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
No.
Honestly, I no longer look more than a year out because we haven't kept a single player who had a truly successful year, so I think what they might develop into is kind of irrelevant.
Again, I apologize if I'm coming off too positive in a negative thread, but look at the resultsevery one of those guys who left was developed well. From Tyson going in the first round to Scottie Pippen landing a $3 million deal to play against Michigan at Ohio State, they all moved on to better opportunities.
Mark Madsen may not be able to sell team chemistry or NCAA tournament appearances right now, but he can sell player developmentand when players develop, they take the next step. That's a positive outcome, not a negative one.
Agreed, that is Madsen's major selling point right now and that looks like our new group of recruits as well: guys who were highly rated as HS recruits who haven't had a lot of PT and/or need their games developed to be high major players.
To that I'd like to add foreign players.
Half our roster should be filled with "traditional" 4 year recruits who are not top 200 prospects (but may develop into solid college players) and value the education without (much) NIL. That would allow us to focus our NIL on difference makers/starters.
TonyTiger said:BearlyCareAnymore said:stu said:Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
No.
Honestly, I no longer look more than a year out because we haven't kept a single player who had a truly successful year, so I think what they might develop into is kind of irrelevant.
Again, I apologize if I'm coming off too positive in a negative thread, but look at the resultsevery one of those guys who left was developed well. From Tyson going in the first round to Scottie Pippen landing a $3 million deal to play against Michigan at Ohio State, they all moved on to better opportunities.
Mark Madsen may not be able to sell team chemistry or NCAA tournament appearances right now, but he can sell player developmentand when players develop, they take the next step. That's a positive outcome, not a negative one.
1. You don't need to apologize for being relentlessly positive. You are where a lot of us have been. Not going to lie, for someone who has been in this place a bunch of times with Cal where things seemed to be positive but we haven't won anything yet (and we usually never did) I can find it gratingly annoying, but that is my problem, not yours.
2. It is blatantly untrue that they all got better and moved on to better things. You guys keep saying Tyson, Tyson, Tyson because no one else from that team did jack. There are a whole lot more guys who regressed or did the same and some of the guys you guys credit looked about the same at the end of the year as the beginning. They just got a bigger opportunity here. There is nothing magic here.
3. Not blaming Madsen, but no it isn't a positive that we trained up Pippen to "bigger and better things" making $3m somewhere else. We should have paid him $3.5m and been the biggest, best thing. We have literally lost almost all of our scoring 4 straight years. That is not a recipe for good times.
calumnus said:TonyTiger said:BearlyCareAnymore said:stu said:Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
No.
Honestly, I no longer look more than a year out because we haven't kept a single player who had a truly successful year, so I think what they might develop into is kind of irrelevant.
Again, I apologize if I'm coming off too positive in a negative thread, but look at the resultsevery one of those guys who left was developed well. From Tyson going in the first round to Scottie Pippen landing a $3 million deal to play against Michigan at Ohio State, they all moved on to better opportunities.
Mark Madsen may not be able to sell team chemistry or NCAA tournament appearances right now, but he can sell player developmentand when players develop, they take the next step. That's a positive outcome, not a negative one.
Agreed, that is Madsen's major selling point right now and that looks like our new group of recruits as well: guys who were highly rated as HS recruits who haven't had a lot of PT and/or need their games developed to be high major players.
To that I'd like to add foreign players.
Half our roster should be filled with "traditional" 4 year recruits who are not top 200 prospects (but may develop into solid college players) and value the education without (much) NIL. That would allow us to focus our NIL on difference makers/starters.
With all due respect, I don't there is these type of guys anymore.
BearlyCareAnymore said:HKBear97! said:concernedparent said:HKBear97! said:TonyTiger said:
Lol- Football and basketball have not looked this good at the same time in decades. Were clearly ascending. Stop letting your personal lives reflect on outside glory. Its wonderful and beautiful for most of us. Cal is freaking Awesome right now.
LOL. Cal always dominates every, single off season, then they play the games....
Do we even look good in the offseason? Since like 2010, the only times I've ever felt good about a Cal football or basketball team coming into the season were: 2015 football (best QB in the nation returning, NFL skill players, experienced defense), 2024 football (star RB, promising returning QB, good portal class, weak schedule); 2011 basketball and 2012 basketball (Crabbe and Cobb years), 2015 basketball (Wallace, Brown, Rabb + Montgomery's last good class), and 2016 basketball (Rabb, Bird returning, exciting 4 star PG in Charlie Moore).
It's damning that in 15 years and 30 possible seasons, I've only had any modicum of expectation for 6 teams.
No, but it doesn't stop many on these boards to declare every offseason that Cal did great - great coaching hires, amazing recruiting, more fundraising, moves "behind the scenes" to build the programs, unbelievable strength and conditioning program, etc., etc. Just look at this thread from last year about the football program - Fernando leaves and then.....
Personally, I no longer have any expectations each season and it's worked out great. Adopt Phil Dunphy's (Modern Family) approach when it comes to Cal sports - "The most amazing things that can happen to a human being will happen to you if you just lower your expectations."
Yes, I remember when there were people mad about the disrespect that people were showing us not predicting Madsen's first team was going to the tourney and when I questioned what that was based on they said you could extrapolate from our awesome recruiting class that we were tourney bound. Didn't quite work out that way. Same process repeated every year, including this one.
Yes, the process is repeating, but Madsen is getting better. His second Cal season wasn't an improvement over his first, but his third was a substantial jump. He's figuring out what kind of offense to run. He's figuring out how to improve the defense. He's figuring out what kind of players to attract, with respect to skill and character, to make his offense and defense work. His game management is improving. I may have to watch new faces every year, but I'm certainly watching better basketball. Maybe the next step is to schedule fewer creampuffs in the pre-conference, so that the team has less of an adjustment to ACC play.
BearlyCareAnymore said:TonyTiger said:BearlyCareAnymore said:stu said:Calfan92 said:
Freshies.
OK, thanks. We have only two and I don't know if Mitrovic has signed yet.
Anyway I don't think our freshies will matter right away since our transfer class looks much stronger. On paper.
Should I even use the term "class" when I expect most of them won't stay more than a year?
No.
Honestly, I no longer look more than a year out because we haven't kept a single player who had a truly successful year, so I think what they might develop into is kind of irrelevant.
Again, I apologize if I'm coming off too positive in a negative thread, but look at the resultsevery one of those guys who left was developed well. From Tyson going in the first round to Scottie Pippen landing a $3 million deal to play against Michigan at Ohio State, they all moved on to better opportunities.
Mark Madsen may not be able to sell team chemistry or NCAA tournament appearances right now, but he can sell player developmentand when players develop, they take the next step. That's a positive outcome, not a negative one.
2. It is blatantly untrue that they all got better and moved on to better things. You guys keep saying Tyson, Tyson, Tyson because no one else from that team did jack. There are a whole lot more guys who regressed or did the same and some of the guys you guys credit looked about the same at the end of the year as the beginning. They just got a bigger opportunity here. There is nothing magic here.
I generally agree with your posts but not this. It's not just a bigger opportunity. Players get bigger opportunities and face plant all the time. Just look at the 2 previous regimes where there were plenty of minutes and shots to go around. Matt Bradley is literally the only example of a player that improved enough to become a significant contributor to a competitive team. Ames' efficiency stats may look the same but the jump in volume is indicative of a major improvement. Do you think Rudy Gobert or any low-volume, high-efficiency player maintains that efficiency if they got 10 more shots a game? No, almost always efficiency goes down as their shots get more difficult due to defensive game planning or the pressure of carrying the load.
It's not just Tyson. Stojakovic did nothing at Stanford. Pippen did nothing at Michigan. Ames, role player at Virginia. Camden, good mid-major player. Sissoko, role player at Michigan State. Dort did nothing at Vanderbilt. Wilkinson, 3 star with mostly mid major offers. They come to Cal and all of them (Dort excepted) become big-time contributors that either moved onto a bigger paycheck at a big-time program, or if they had another year of eligibility, would've gotten a bigger paycheck.
There's just too many examples for it to be a coincidence. Madsen is either excellent at talent development, or excellent at talent scouting plus having a system that allows players to shine. Either way, players are way more productive here than they were before. It sucks that in the portal/NIL age this attribute isn't as indicative of team success, but it's not nothing.
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