Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

PAC-10-BEAR said:

---

cal83dls79 said:

---

PAC-10-BEAR said:

---

They will stop talking about the pool as more people are caught and arrested.

---

but will Trump? Seriously doubt it bra

---

When was the last time you ripped up a pool, bra?

---

My wife poured a bunch of caustic chemicals into a pool yesterday. However, it was our pool so that's allowed.

---

*I'm never letting go of this. Never. Not once.

PAC-10-BEAR said:

---

Contractors who low bid can also make up their initial low cost by issuing change orders up the wazoo after the project is awarded. They can get away with this by being crafty when developing their proposal.

They would qualify what they were providing using language that wouldn't seem like they were making exclusions while being specific about quantities of materials, the type of material, or the scope of work.

The government rep reviewing bid proposals may not be as familiar with the specifics of the project and could award it to the lowest bidder as long as the minimum requirements were met.

---

You are 100% right about all of this.

In the 1990s, there was a huge empty US Steel Warehouse which took up an entire square block between 15th and 16th streets, and Folsom and Harrison streets. The City Engineering Department hired an Engineering firm from LA to remodel the warehouse into a Bus Maintenance Facility and Garage for MUNI buses. They went out to bid a few times, but the bids came in too high. The project budget was $8 million. The City fired the Engineering firm and hired a Civil Engineering firm from SF to modify the design to bring the price down. I was then hired by this engineering firm to supervise the Mechanical and Electrical engineering. Their design was so full of errors, I estimated it would take 6 months to correct and complete before we could go out to bid again. The City gave me 6 weeks to finish. I told them there would be a lot of errors and omissions if we do it that fast. After 6 weeks, the unfinished drawings went out for bid, and a contract was awarded by the City for $8 million.

I knew we were in big trouble, when the contractor rolled in three big trailers. Inside there were some long tables where they could lay out all our drawings, and the contractors poured over those drawings for weeks, looking for errors which they could exploit and issue change orders, which they did.

In the meantime, my company fired their architectural consultant, probably because he did not want to put his seal on the drawings and sign them. My company directed me to seal and sign the drawings. I told them I had an Engineering License, but no Architect's License and could not by law sign the architectural drawings. My company then fired me. I filed for unemployment, my company contested it, but they did not show up for my hearing, so I at least got full unemployment pay out of it. The project took a year to build, at a cost of $28 million, as I remember.

movielover said:

---

The unions and the Mafia made New York a tough place to do business. Donald Trump completed some landmark projects. Trump Tower reportedly had great public areas, but residential units used average or below-average finishings (cabinets, counters), which tenants eventually upgraded. The Mafia reportedly got 2% of any cement job in NYC. There were famous criminal cases at the time.

I was at the JK Javitz Center for a conference. The rules were you could only carry one box onto the floor, no private dollies. All union. One worker was pushing a large, light load past our booth on rollers, and a foreman directed a second worker to help, then two more. Four workers to push what two could do safely, with zero strain. Manhattan was empty on Sunday, parking fees were outrageous.

A big Bay Area GC was famous for bidding jobs at break even or a loss, and making their profits on 'change orders'.

---

This all sounds like what I suspected would be true.

Another group Donald Trump as a developer in New York would have to satisfy in order to get his projects to move ahead smoothly would be the City bureaucracy. In his father's contracting days, many would have been the Irish department heads, planning commissions, building inspectors, etc.

In the San Francisco MUNI project I mentioned above, the US Steel Warehouse was a place where a lot of oil was used in cutting steel, and the used oil was stored in a huge pit in the concrete floor. The pit was covered by heavy steel plates. Several City departments were interested in the status and quality of oil in the pit, and how we would plan to dispose of the oil. They brought a forklift and invited me to come down and together we would have a look at the oil in the pit. When I arrived, there was a forklift operator, his supervisor to tell him what to do, and 45 City supervisors and employees from about 15 or 20 City government Departments. It was quite a circus and took about 2 hours to set up, pull all the steel plates off, and all of us peeking into the pit, with a few people taking notes. We were there almost half a day on the taxpayer dime.

SFCityBear said:

---

PAC-10-BEAR said:

---

Contractors who low bid can also make up their initial low cost by issuing change orders up the wazoo after the project is awarded. They can get away with this by being crafty when developing their proposal.

They would qualify what they were providing using language that wouldn't seem like they were making exclusions while being specific about quantities of materials, the type of material, or the scope of work.

The government rep reviewing bid proposals may not be as familiar with the specifics of the project and could award it to the lowest bidder as long as the minimum requirements were met.

---

You are 100% right about all of this.

In the 1990s, there was a huge empty US Steel Warehouse which took up an entire square block between 15th and 16th streets, and Folsom and Harrison streets. The City Engineering Department hired an Engineering firm from LA to remodel the warehouse into a Bus Maintenance Facility and Garage for MUNI buses. They went out to bid a few times, but the bids came in too high. The project budget was $8 million. The City fired the Engineering firm and hired a Civil Engineering firm from SF to modify the design to bring the price down. I was then hired by this engineering firm to supervise the Mechanical and Electrical engineering. Their design was so full of errors, I estimated it would take 6 months to correct and complete before we could go out to bid again. The City gave me 6 weeks to finish. I told them there would be a lot of errors and omissions if we do it that fast. After 6 weeks, the unfinished drawings went out for bid, and a contract was awarded by the City for $8 million.

I knew we were in big trouble, when the contractor rolled in three big trailers. Inside there were some long tables where they could lay out all our drawings, and the contractors poured over those drawings for weeks, looking for errors which they could exploit and issue change orders, which they did.

In the meantime, my company fired their architectural consultant, probably because he did not want to put his seal on the drawings and sign them. My company directed me to seal and sign the drawings. I told them I had an Engineering License, but no Architect's License and could not by law sign the architectural drawings. My company then fired me. I filed for unemployment, my company contested it, but they did not show up for my hearing, so I at least got full unemployment pay out of it. The project took a year to build, at a cost of $28 million, as I remember.

---

Oh my days, what a horror story.

Did you consider trying to get hired by contractor to see how you can help them with issuing change orders since you would be the most familiar person with the design? And did your previous company eventually find a licensed architect to stamp?

dajo9 said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

bearister said:

---

Dwight Way said:

---

Nothing to see here.

Just a non-bid non-competitive contract was given to Trump donor and Mar-a-lago neighbor John Cafaro.
Greenwater Services, Brookfield, Ohio.

---

I'm thinking Mr. Cafaro is one of those rare contractors that Trump won't stiff, regardless of the quality of the workmanship. He looks like one of those guys that if you don't pay his invoice that they find your body shrink wrapped, weighted and at the bottom of an aqueduct. They find your hands and feet shrink wrapped, weighted and at the bottom of an aqueduct…..in a different state.

---

Donald Trump was a successful developer of property. And he did much of this in New York City. In New York, you don't do business, big projects, without being friends with the Mafia. They control, at least, the labor unions of the construction trades.

As for no-bid contracts, my father, an architect, often tried to recommend to his clients that they use contractors whom he knew would do a really good job on their project, even if their price was higher. That was nearly always a smart strategy, rather than go out for bids. I've also been in the construction business most of my life. My experience is that when you go out to bid, and select the low bidder, you have to watch the project like a hawk, to make sure the low bidder is not cutting corners, maybe leaving something out, or substituting cheaper materials, sometimes with disastrous results. Government agencies usually insist on going out to bid, and usually get poorly constructed projects as a result. There is a standard joke in our profession, when something was not quite done right: "Oh well, that's close enough for government work."

---

Imagine believing a guy was friends with the NYC mafia and then voting for that guy to be President. There is a reason 80% of NYC knew Trump didn't have the character to be President 10 years ago.

---

What I meant to say was that you don't do big construction projects in New York without making friends with the Mafia. Not "being friends".

To do a deal with a party who could get hostile, you need to make friends for that moment, that meeting, not be bosom buddies. An even better word would have been "schmooze". You know, be cordial, be friendly. Trump has to do some of that every day. It has to be really hard to do a deal with people like the Mafia who have their own rules, not to mention volatile temperament.

You want to use voters of New York City as a source for truth? They just elected a Muslim Communist as Mayor! Two groups with highly suspicious credibility with the rest of the civilized world. Before that they elected De Blasio. They haven't had a decent Mayor since Giuliani.

What has character got to do with becoming a Presidential candidate? Where do you read in our founding documents or in our laws that Presidential candidates must possess character?

Have you voted for Democrats for President? When is the last time the Democrats nominated a person of character? I have to go as far back as Jimmy Carter to answer that one. Before that it would be Harry Truman. Or maybe Hubert Humphrey or Adlai Stevenson.

When I am deciding who to vote for, I don't think about character. I want someone who I think will do what he says. I want someone who I think will do the best job for America and Americans. Secondly, I would also want a President who would try and do the best job he could for the rest of the world. I like character, but some our best have had little character, and some with character have failed badly at the job of President.

PAC-10-BEAR said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

PAC-10-BEAR said:

---

Contractors who low bid can also make up their initial low cost by issuing change orders up the wazoo after the project is awarded. They can get away with this by being crafty when developing their proposal.

They would qualify what they were providing using language that wouldn't seem like they were making exclusions while being specific about quantities of materials, the type of material, or the scope of work.

The government rep reviewing bid proposals may not be as familiar with the specifics of the project and could award it to the lowest bidder as long as the minimum requirements were met.

---

You are 100% right about all of this.

In the 1990s, there was a huge empty US Steel Warehouse which took up an entire square block between 15th and 16th streets, and Folsom and Harrison streets. The City Engineering Department hired an Engineering firm from LA to remodel the warehouse into a Bus Maintenance Facility and Garage for MUNI buses. They went out to bid a few times, but the bids came in too high. The project budget was $8 million. The City fired the Engineering firm and hired a Civil Engineering firm from SF to modify the design to bring the price down. I was then hired by this engineering firm to supervise the Mechanical and Electrical engineering. Their design was so full of errors, I estimated it would take 6 months to correct and complete before we could go out to bid again. The City gave me 6 weeks to finish. I told them there would be a lot of errors and omissions if we do it that fast. After 6 weeks, the unfinished drawings went out for bid, and a contract was awarded by the City for $8 million.

I knew we were in big trouble, when the contractor rolled in three big trailers. Inside there were some long tables where they could lay out all our drawings, and the contractors poured over those drawings for weeks, looking for errors which they could exploit and issue change orders, which they did.

In the meantime, my company fired their architectural consultant, probably because he did not want to put his seal on the drawings and sign them. My company directed me to seal and sign the drawings. I told them I had an Engineering License, but no Architect's License and could not by law sign the architectural drawings. My company then fired me. I filed for unemployment, my company contested it, but they did not show up for my hearing, so I at least got full unemployment pay out of it. The project took a year to build, at a cost of $28 million, as I remember.

---

Oh my days, what a horror story.

Did you consider trying to get hired by contractor to see how you can help them with issuing change orders since you would be the most familiar person with the design? And did your previous company eventually find a licensed architect to stamp?

---

No, I was told by my attorney to leave the company and that project, no matter how much I wanted to see that project completed, He said if I signed those drawings, I would likely lose my own licenses. I am licensed in Mechanical, Electrical, and Civil Engineering. The company I worked for was a corporation based in Chicago, They specialized in bridges and grade separations, but were trying to expand into Mechanical and Electrical projects, and really bit off more than they could chew.

Also, part of the design was to put several tanks for oil, transmission fluid, and fuel in big concrete vaults below the floor. They would have to meet building codes and provide ventilation, electricity and lighting along with leak sensors in each tank. I got to thinking that the building was located on filled land, and in the past was part of the Bay. I went to the records and found the water table was only 3 feet below the floor. I told everyone that our design is unsafe. The contractor began excavating along the 15th street side of the building. Each day they had to pump more water out of the hole. I warned management again, but no one listened. Next morning, I came to work and found a large section of 15th street had collapsed into the hole.

I believe the project was eventually completed and occupied by MUNI. Today it is just a storage facility for some private company's buses.

according to the internet, and this is true, bobbie lives..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dylan

kinda scarey in tight closeups though, as happens to advanced age folks
https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/rock-stars/bob-dylan-net-worth/

A mild face-lift might help.