Feel free to comment on reporting storylines, on US need to mine or make its own stuff, or anything else.

I won't complain about thread hijacking.

Rare earths and ship building are tied to national defense. We cannot outsource national defense.

We aren't every other nation. We are some version of the world's biggest super power and really the main driving force behind NATO.

China is trying to overtake us as the world's super power. We can either let that happen or we can do what we need to do to provide more (not all) for ourselves. Read: this isn't an all or nothing proposition. We are currently overly reliant on China and need to have more self-sufficiency, not completely rely on them or completely cut them off.

concordtom said:

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Feel free to comment on reporting storylines, on US need to mine or make its own stuff, or anything else.

I won't complain about thread hijacking.

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Some of these story lines have been covered before by "60 Minutes".

In fact, there was a segment about a few years ago on how our Navy lacks shipbuilding capacity as China ramps up massive Naval capacity.

tequila4kapp said:

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Rare earths and ship building are tied to national defense. We cannot outsource national defense.

We aren't every other nation. We are some version of the world's biggest super power and really the main driving force behind NATO.

China is trying to overtake us as the world's super power. We can either let that happen or we can do what we need to do to provide more (not all) for ourselves. Read: this isn't an all or nothing proposition. We are currently overly reliant on China and need to have more self-sufficiency, not completely rely on them or completely cut them off.

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Why not just buy the ships we want to own now?
Same with solar panels. If a war comes, we can ramp up production then.

We should have a stockpile of ships and PV modules.

USA thinks we must be a superpower in everything all the time. Dude, we do not and cannot and should not

We are a fraction of global population and landmass.

It's a losing mindset.
Rome felt the same way, I suppose.

It's better to create a global community that functions well together.

Fear prevails. And we spread it regularly! More than most anyone!

I don't know what this guy says about the matter, but everyone makes the rise of China to be a horrible thing.
Is it really?

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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concordtom said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Rare earths and ship building are tied to national defense. We cannot outsource national defense.

We aren't every other nation. We are some version of the world's biggest super power and really the main driving force behind NATO.

China is trying to overtake us as the world's super power. We can either let that happen or we can do what we need to do to provide more (not all) for ourselves. Read: this isn't an all or nothing proposition. We are currently overly reliant on China and need to have more self-sufficiency, not completely rely on them or completely cut them off.

---

Why not just buy the ships we want to own now?
Same with solar panels. If a war comes, we can ramp up production then.

We should have a stockpile of ships and PV modules.

USA thinks we must be a superpower in everything all the time. Dude, we do not and cannot and should not

We are a fraction of global population and landmass.

It's a losing mindset.
Rome felt the same way, I suppose.

It's better to create a global community that functions well together.

Fear prevails. And we spread it regularly! More than most anyone!

---

The US is spending twice as much on the military as Russia and China combined and we're getting our butts kicked by Iran, which isn't even in the top 15. If that doesn't make you think something's wrong, I don't know what will. We have a bloated and inefficient military. Time to shake things up.

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We aren't getting our butt kicked by Iran.

You're apparently not one of US if you don't believe in a strong military.
We must be able to dominate. We are the "USA USA USA!"
You disrespect all the fallen soldiers of ww2 if you do not support a bigger military budget.

oski003 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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concordtom said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Rare earths and ship building are tied to national defense. We cannot outsource national defense.

We aren't every other nation. We are some version of the world's biggest super power and really the main driving force behind NATO.

China is trying to overtake us as the world's super power. We can either let that happen or we can do what we need to do to provide more (not all) for ourselves. Read: this isn't an all or nothing proposition. We are currently overly reliant on China and need to have more self-sufficiency, not completely rely on them or completely cut them off.

---

Why not just buy the ships we want to own now?
Same with solar panels. If a war comes, we can ramp up production then.

We should have a stockpile of ships and PV modules.

USA thinks we must be a superpower in everything all the time. Dude, we do not and cannot and should not

We are a fraction of global population and landmass.

It's a losing mindset.
Rome felt the same way, I suppose.

It's better to create a global community that functions well together.

Fear prevails. And we spread it regularly! More than most anyone!

---

The US is spending twice as much on the military as Russia and China combined and we're getting our butts kicked by Iran, which isn't even in the top 15. If that doesn't make you think something's wrong, I don't know what will. We have a bloated and inefficient military. Time to shake things up.

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We aren't getting our butt kicked by Iran.

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Perhaps an overstatement by me, but the US isn't WINNING.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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We aren't getting our butt kicked by Iran.

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Perhaps an overstatement by me, but the US isn't WINNING.

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This is an astounding statement. We are at Harlem Globetrotters vs Washington Generals levels of winning. How do you define winning?

What else could we be spending money on?




In the shipbuilding segment posted above, airing last night, they pointed out that trumps tariffs made steel prices go up - even US made steel - because it's a global market.

US policy often makes little sense.
Inefficient.

tequila4kapp said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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We aren't getting our butt kicked by Iran.

---

Perhaps an overstatement by me, but the US isn't WINNING.

---

This is an astounding statement. We are at Harlem Globetrotters vs Washington Generals levels of winning. How do you define winning?

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I'd like to know how ANYONE defines winning!
How do you define winning, Tequila?

concordtom said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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We aren't getting our butt kicked by Iran.

---

Perhaps an overstatement by me, but the US isn't WINNING.

---

This is an astounding statement. We are at Harlem Globetrotters vs Washington Generals levels of winning. How do you define winning?

---

I'd like to know how ANYONE defines winning!
How do you define winning, Tequila?

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I mean no disrespect to you and Eastern but this isn't a real discussion. To put this in terms of completing a sale, "we are too far apart to make a deal" so there is no point engaging; I am going to drop out of the convo. Go Bears!

Transitioning the U.S. power grid to 100% renewable energy, primarily wind and solar, is estimated to cost between $4.5 trillion and $7.8 trillion in total investment. This massive overhaul involves massive buildouts of solar and wind capacity, significant battery storage, and doubled transmission lines. Proponents suggest this investment can pay for itself within seven years through lower energy costs.

Key elements of the estimated costs include:

Total Investment Need:
Estimates range from $4.5 trillion by 2030 (Wood Mackenzie) to $7.8 trillion by 2050.

Grid Infrastructure: Upgrading to 100% renewables requires adding 900 gigawatts of battery storage and doubling current transmission lines to 400,000 miles.

Components: The transition requires roughly $1.5 trillion in wind and solar capacity, along with significant investments in battery storage and grid improvements.

Operating Costs: While upfront costs are high, renewable energy sources like wind and solar are often cheaper to operate and generate over time compared to fossil fuels.

Note: Some experts argue that reaching the final 10-20% of renewable energy is significantly more challenging and expensive than the initial phases.

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/shifting-u-s-to-100-percent-renewables-would-cost-4-5-trillion-analysis-finds

tequila4kapp said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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The US is spending twice as much on the military as Russia and China combined and we're getting our butts kicked by Iran, which isn't even in the top 15. If that doesn't make you think something's wrong, I don't know what will. We have a bloated and inefficient military. Time to shake things up.

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What are you talking about?

We have lost @10 service members and 1 airplane. Iran's entire navy, air force, air defense system, president/supreme leader and layers of their civilian and military leadership are dead. This is a one sided beat down of historic proportions in the exact opposite direction.

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The truth is in between, we can't open the Hormuz Strait or disarm Iran's missile and drone arsenal.

We've lost at least 4 jets, including an F-35, and over a dozen Reapers. They still have air defense, mostly set up to ambush from hidden spots. They also have dozens (hundreds?) of 358/359 loitering AA missile mobile stations, which would shoot down subsonic jets, drones or choppers.

Airplane losses have been kept low because the USAF has mostly relied on stand-off weapons till now. With the inventory of those weapons depleting, planes will have to take more risk on bombing missions.

tequila4kapp said:

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concordtom said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

oski003 said:

---

We aren't getting our butt kicked by Iran.

---

Perhaps an overstatement by me, but the US isn't WINNING.

---

This is an astounding statement. We are at Harlem Globetrotters vs Washington Generals levels of winning. How do you define winning?

---

I'd like to know how ANYONE defines winning!
How do you define winning, Tequila?

---

I mean no disrespect to you and Eastern but this isn't a real discussion. To put this in terms of completing a sale, "we are too far apart to make a deal" so there is no point engaging; I am going to drop out of the convo. Go Bears!

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Wow.
I'm quite serious. I don't know why we are even fighting this war.
So therefore what would winning it mean?

I know what losing it means - everyone loses.

To put this in terms of negotiating a sale: "why do you even want to sell me on the concept of this war?"

I'm sad you choose to step out rather than edify me.
I'm not at all trying to be hostile, just expressing my views.
I believe in a harmonious planet, whether it's oil, shipbuilding or rare earth minerals.

I view all the pro-USA, militaristic, leadership mindset to be crap.
I guess you don't and that's why you're simply stepping out.





Hey, what can I say?
I'm a child of the 60's whose parents went to Berkeley.

If we wanted to secure our national energy interests, and thus our national security, maybe we'd like to utilize what we have a comparative advantage in:

tequila4kapp said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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We aren't getting our butt kicked by Iran.

---

Perhaps an overstatement by me, but the US isn't WINNING.

---

This is an astounding statement. We are at Harlem Globetrotters vs Washington Generals levels of winning. How do you define winning?

---

By conventional measures, the war with Iran has been remarkably successful. Iran's leadership has been decimated, military targets flattened, etc. However, Iran still controls who is passing through the Straight of Hormuz and missiles and drones still rain down on Israel and other countries in the region. Iran made a leadership transition that if anything, is more hard-line than the pre war leadership. Also, we are apparently retreating from many of our bases in Iraq. That doesn't sound like we've won to me. We are ahead, but it appears to be the 3rd inning.

And based on my other post quoting Christiane Amanpour, there's approximately 450kg of uranium in Iran that is just below weapons grade but could make 10 bombs.

Who knows where it is?
Do we "win" when we find it?
Do we "lose" if we don't?

Big C said:

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Sounds almost too incredible to be true, but I think Trump is doing this because it feeds his ego to be on TV all the time posing as a world leader. That and for his buddy, Bibi.

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Trump first flexed on women, then banks and investors, then on gays and Mexicans, then on the Courts and Congress, then on Venezuela and….

Ah hell, there's nothing left other than to mobilize the entire military industrial complex and blow a bunch of cities up.

It would be nice if he learned.



But of course, some people are just built that way.



Evil.

tequila4kapp said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

oski003 said:

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We aren't getting our butt kicked by Iran.

---

Perhaps an overstatement by me, but the US isn't WINNING.

---

This is an astounding statement. We are at Harlem Globetrotters vs Washington Generals levels of winning. How do you define winning?

---

More updates on winning for you:

Oh, well - this happens. Like in every single American war over the last 60 years.

It might be a good reason to be skeptical about the next war the US Govt sells (that said, most Americans know this, which is why most oppose the Trump/Netanyahu war): https://t.co/FtPKKWVB0w

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) March 23, 2026

Aunburdened said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

oski003 said:

---

We aren't getting our butt kicked by Iran.

---

Perhaps an overstatement by me, but the US isn't WINNING.

---

This is an astounding statement. We are at Harlem Globetrotters vs Washington Generals levels of winning. How do you define winning?

---

More updates on winning for you:

Oh, well - this happens. Like in every single American war over the last 60 years.

It might be a good reason to be skeptical about the next war the US Govt sells (that said, most Americans know this, which is why most oppose the Trump/Netanyahu war): https://t.co/FtPKKWVB0w

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) March 23, 2026

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It sure is a good thing we pissed them off, and then left them with uranium stock to use on us later.







Hint:
The smoking gun is Trump.


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