Back in the day it didn't matter, but the fact is there were no "injuries" from our players and every player played hard. Would be great if Pippen, Ames, and Carr all came back with possibly Petraitis and Dort. (Add Yeaney and Ruff.) Nice to have the continuity. Next assignment is for MM to get some stronger, more athletic frontcourt guys along with one forward who can shoot. Let's see how it plays out.
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One Good Thing
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Last: 13 days ago by calumnus
RedlessWardrobe said:
Back in the day it didn't matter, but the fact is there were no "injuries" from our players and every player played hard. Would be great if Pippen, Ames, and Carr all came back with possibly Petraitis and Dort. (Add Yeaney and Ruff.) Nice to have the continuity. Next assignment is for MM to get some stronger, more athletic frontcourt guys along with one forward who can shoot. Let's see how it plays out.
thanks. but in the age of pay for play, darn, only deep pockets are competitive.
sighned, not dead yet # funk trunk; i.c.e. too
smh said:RedlessWardrobe said:
Back in the day it didn't matter, but the fact is there were no "injuries" from our players and every player played hard. Would be great if Pippen, Ames, and Carr all came back with possibly Petraitis and Dort. (Add Yeaney and Ruff.) Nice to have the continuity. Next assignment is for MM to get some stronger, more athletic frontcourt guys along with one forward who can shoot. Let's see how it plays out.
thanks. but in the age of pay for play, darn, only deep pockets are competitive.
Obviously it's a big factor but only deep pockets might not be accurate. Do you really think that JKS is getting the most $ possible from Cal?
RedlessWardrobe said:
> Do you really think that JKS is getting the most $ possible from Cal?
dunno, but would be nice if we could afford to his skills for another year.
sighned, not dead yet # funk trunk; i.c.e. too
smh said:RedlessWardrobe said:
> Do you really think that JKS is getting the most $ possible from Cal?
dunno, but would be nice if we could afford to his skills for another year.
To your point, I'm surprised he stayed just for this fall.
RedlessWardrobe said:
Back in the day it didn't matter, but the fact is there were no "injuries" from our players and every player played hard. Would be great if Pippen, Ames, and Carr all came back with possibly Petraitis and Dort. (Add Yeaney and Ruff.) Nice to have the continuity. Next assignment is for MM to get some stronger, more athletic frontcourt guys along with one forward who can shoot. Let's see how it plays out.
If Mark departs, then all bets are off as far as retention of current player and committed recruits and as to future scholastic and portal recruiting in 2026. Mark's departure would be Titanic in its adverse impact.
Harky4 said:
> If Mark departs, then all bets are off as far as retention of current player and committed recruits and as to future scholastic and portal recruiting in 2026. Mark's departure would be Titanic in its adverse impact.
or else, in this brave new world, all bets are off already / anyways.
# things change // eat dessert first
sighned, not dead yet # funk trunk; i.c.e. too
Harky4 said:RedlessWardrobe said:
Back in the day it didn't matter, but the fact is there were no "injuries" from our players and every player played hard. Would be great if Pippen, Ames, and Carr all came back with possibly Petraitis and Dort. (Add Yeaney and Ruff.) Nice to have the continuity. Next assignment is for MM to get some stronger, more athletic frontcourt guys along with one forward who can shoot. Let's see how it plays out.
If Mark departs, then all bets are off as far as retention of current player and committed recruits and as to future scholastic and portal recruiting in 2026. Mark's departure would be Titanic in its adverse impact.
Losing Mark would be a devastating blow. Would mean starting all over from scratch. A GM with some juice is so badly needed. Along with of course a much greater level of donor support to have an NIL budget that allows for both some player retention and acquisition.
Hopefully the thought he could depart has set in motion the wheels of progress so badly needed. I know many are working hard to get it done.
6956bear said:Harky4 said:RedlessWardrobe said:
Back in the day it didn't matter, but the fact is there were no "injuries" from our players and every player played hard. Would be great if Pippen, Ames, and Carr all came back with possibly Petraitis and Dort. (Add Yeaney and Ruff.) Nice to have the continuity. Next assignment is for MM to get some stronger, more athletic frontcourt guys along with one forward who can shoot. Let's see how it plays out.
If Mark departs, then all bets are off as far as retention of current player and committed recruits and as to future scholastic and portal recruiting in 2026. Mark's departure would be Titanic in its adverse impact.
Losing Mark would be a devastating blow. Would mean starting all over from scratch. A GM with some juice is so badly needed. Along with of course a much greater level of donor support to have an NIL budget that allows for both some player retention and acquisition.
Hopefully the thought he could depart has set in motion the wheels of progress so badly needed. I know many are working hard to get it done.
I remember similar threads on Wilcox when Oregon came calling. Repeat after me - no coach is irreplaceable. And in today's NIL/transfer portal world, that statement is even more true.
Dennis Gates makes $4M at Missouri, ns $2,8 for MM here.
Cal88 said:
Dennis Gates makes $4M at Missouri, ns $2,8 for MM here.
Gates' initial salary at Missouri in 2023 was $2.5 million. He was making $550,000 at Cleveland State.
We really missed out with Knowlton hiring and extending Mark Fox.
HKBear97! said:6956bear said:Harky4 said:RedlessWardrobe said:
Back in the day it didn't matter, but the fact is there were no "injuries" from our players and every player played hard. Would be great if Pippen, Ames, and Carr all came back with possibly Petraitis and Dort. (Add Yeaney and Ruff.) Nice to have the continuity. Next assignment is for MM to get some stronger, more athletic frontcourt guys along with one forward who can shoot. Let's see how it plays out.
If Mark departs, then all bets are off as far as retention of current player and committed recruits and as to future scholastic and portal recruiting in 2026. Mark's departure would be Titanic in its adverse impact.
Losing Mark would be a devastating blow. Would mean starting all over from scratch. A GM with some juice is so badly needed. Along with of course a much greater level of donor support to have an NIL budget that allows for both some player retention and acquisition.
Hopefully the thought he could depart has set in motion the wheels of progress so badly needed. I know many are working hard to get it done.
I remember similar threads on Wilcox when Oregon came calling. Repeat after me - no coach is irreplaceable. And in today's NIL/transfer portal world, that statement is even more true.
I agree with the premise. Where I would have concern is the lack of a permanent AD, no hoops GM and the clear need to improve the NIL budget.
Until Cal resolves the above concerns I would not want to be in the market for a new coach. All coaches want to know who their boss will be, have a GM to help with the many administrative hurdles Cal seems to present and have an NIL budget that is at least mid ACC competitive.
Just as Cal is finally getting out from the darkness of Wyking, Fox and Knowlton and looking to correct the above concerns this is not the year I would want to go hunting for a new coach.
But sure there is no irreplaceable coach but IMO the biggest concern is not with the coach but with the support. I hope Cal can secure more support and get a GM and permanent AD in place soon. A set up similar to what Rivera provides for football would be ideal. Not sure who Cal has in mind. But my dream is Shareef Abdur-Rahim. May be a longshot but if dreaming lets dream big. .
calumnus said:Cal88 said:
Dennis Gates makes $4M at Missouri, ns $2,8 for MM here.
Gates' initial salary at Missouri in 2023 was $2.5 million. He was making $550,000 at Cleveland State.
We really missed out with Knowlton hiring and extending Mark Fox.
We really missed out with Crist hiring and extending James Knowlton.
stu said:calumnus said:Cal88 said:
Dennis Gates makes $4M at Missouri, ns $2,8 for MM here.
Gates' initial salary at Missouri in 2023 was $2.5 million. He was making $550,000 at Cleveland State.
We really missed out with Knowlton hiring and extending Mark Fox.
We really missed out with Crist hiring and extending James Knowlton.
100%
stu said:calumnus said:Cal88 said:
Dennis Gates makes $4M at Missouri, ns $2,8 for MM here.
Gates' initial salary at Missouri in 2023 was $2.5 million. He was making $550,000 at Cleveland State.
We really missed out with Knowlton hiring and extending Mark Fox.
We really missed out with Crist hiring and extending James Knowlton.
The biggest mistake that destroyed the program was Williams hiring Wyking Jones. Cal had the buyout from Cuonzo, some recruiting momentum, national publicity, and then made the inexplicable decision to hire a coach that had never been a head coach at any level nor even an assistant head coach at any level. That led to predictable results and I firmly believe that made Knowlton believe he needed to hire an experienced coach and thus picked Fox from the search firm candidates. The Wyking decision was catastrophic.
calumnus said:Cal88 said:
Dennis Gates makes $4M at Missouri, ns $2,8 for MM here.
Gates' initial salary at Missouri in 2023 was $2.5 million. He was making $550,000 at Cleveland State.
We really missed out with Knowlton
fixed it for you
HKBear97! said:stu said:calumnus said:Cal88 said:
Dennis Gates makes $4M at Missouri, ns $2,8 for MM here.
Gates' initial salary at Missouri in 2023 was $2.5 million. He was making $550,000 at Cleveland State.
We really missed out with Knowlton hiring and extending Mark Fox.
We really missed out with Crist hiring and extending James Knowlton.
The biggest mistake that destroyed the program was Williams hiring Wyking Jones. Cal had the buyout from Cuonzo, some recruiting momentum, national publicity, and then made the inexplicable decision to hire a coach that had never been a head coach at any level nor even an assistant head coach at any level. That led to predictable results and I firmly believe that made Knowlton believe he needed to hire an experienced coach and thus picked Fox from the search firm candidates. The Wyking decision was catastrophic.
I don't know why people say this. He was only coach for two years, it is never catastrophic if you cut a bad coach quickly. He was not left a ton of talent, but his last class was ranked #42, good by Cal standards and he assembled a really nice young team:
C Vanover
PF Kelly
SF Sueing
SG Bradley
PG Austin
6th man Anticevich
I was looking forward to seeing those guys together for 3 more years. Sure, it was a mistake to try to play fast with such a young team. He had that 16 game losing streak that Bearister always points to, but he did not not lose the team and we closed out the season on a winning streak, pulling off upsets.
If Knowlton had just fired him for a BETTER hire that could keep the young team together and built on it we would have been great. The two years would have been a blip.
Instead he hired Mark Fox, a guy with a horrible reputation, both his personality and his style of play, who chased off all the talent we had, if not immediately, then eventually, year by year we got worse and worse, the players looked miserable, he'd throw them under the bus in the postgame. Again, if we had cut him lose after year 2 it would not be catastrophic. But Knowlton extended him.
That final year we went 3-29, the worst record out of 365 D1 schools and the worst record in our history, which has had some bad seasons. Not only did Fox end the season with a 16 game losing streak that would have certainly continued indefinitely if the season were not mercifully over, but he also had a 13 game losing streak in the same season. Moreover, we were the lowest scoring team in the country, just miserable to watch.
And all of this was during the breakup of the Pac-12, just making Cal a laughing stock and reducing our already low value from football with Wilcox as coach. That was what was catastrophic, Knowlton telling the world that we were happy with the results Fox produced, that we did not even aspire to be a winning program.
calumnus said:HKBear97! said:stu said:calumnus said:Cal88 said:
Dennis Gates makes $4M at Missouri, ns $2,8 for MM here.
Gates' initial salary at Missouri in 2023 was $2.5 million. He was making $550,000 at Cleveland State.
We really missed out with Knowlton hiring and extending Mark Fox.
We really missed out with Crist hiring and extending James Knowlton.
The biggest mistake that destroyed the program was Williams hiring Wyking Jones. Cal had the buyout from Cuonzo, some recruiting momentum, national publicity, and then made the inexplicable decision to hire a coach that had never been a head coach at any level nor even an assistant head coach at any level. That led to predictable results and I firmly believe that made Knowlton believe he needed to hire an experienced coach and thus picked Fox from the search firm candidates. The Wyking decision was catastrophic.
I don't know why people say this. He was only coach for two years, it is never catastrophic if you cut a bad coach quickly. He was not left a ton of talent, but his last class was ranked #42, good by Cal standards and he assembled a really nice young team:
C Vanover
PF Kelly
SF Sueing
SG Bradley
PG Austin
6th man Anticevich
I was looking forward to seeing those guys together for 3 more years. Sure, it was a mistake to try to play fast with such a young team. He had that 16 game losing streak that Bearister always points to, but he did not not lose the team and we closed out the season on a winning streak, pulling off upsets.
If Knowlton had just fired him for a BETTER hire that could keep the young team together and built on it we would have been great. The two years would have been a blip.
Instead he hired Mark Fox, a guy with a horrible reputation, both his personality and his style of play, who chased off all the talent we had, if not immediately, then eventually, year by year we got worse and worse, the players looked miserable, he'd throw them under the bus in the postgame. Again, if we had cut him lose after year 2 it would not be catastrophic. But Knowlton extended him.
That final year we went 3-29, the worst record out of 365 D1 schools and the worst record in our history, which has had some bad seasons. Not only did Fox end the season with a 16 game losing streak that would have certainly continued indefinitely if the season were not mercifully over, but he also had a 13 game losing streak in the same season. Moreover, we were the lowest scoring team in the country, just miserable to watch.
And all of this was during the breakup of the Pac-12, just making Cal a laughing stock and reducing our already low value from football with Wilcox as coach. That was what was catastrophic, Knowlton telling the world that we were happy with the results Fox produced, that we did not even aspire to be a winning program.
Yes, you often point to Wyking's recruiting as some sign of hope. But really, aside from Bradley did those players amount to much? And it doesn't change the fact he couldn't coach. Even in-bounds plays were an adventure to watch. I also don't put much into winning three games in an 8-win season - one against a UW team that basically didn't prepare for a 16-game losing streak team coming in, a struggling WSU team that ended the season on a six-game losing streak and a Stanford team down a starter and also ending the year on a 1-5 losing streak. Nothing could convince me that giving him more time would have been an option. Most idiotic hire of all time - Wyking had absolutely nothing on his resume to suggest he was a good hire.
As for the Knowlton Fox hire, it was a terrible hire as well, but at least on paper you could understand the rationale for hiring Fox. Compare the two resumes at the time and tell me who you would have hired? Now the Fox extension is right up there though - I'd say hiring Wyking is the worst decision and extending Fox is worst decision number two. Either way, the Wyking/Fox years are among the darkest times in Cal basketball.
who is JKS?
Cal quarterback .
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
3Cats4CAL said:
who is JKS?
Jaron Keawe Sagapolutele
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