sycasey said:Aunburdened said:sycasey said:Cal88 said:sycasey said:oski003 said:sycasey said:Cal88 said:sycasey said:
In all seriousness, though: none of this is "proven." The Russians say they didn't violate the agreement. Ukraine and much of the West says they did. All you have is an opinion here.
Personally, I think the fact that they invaded and started a war is pretty strong evidence that they didn't respect any peace treaty. But again: you do you.
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The heads of state of France, Germany and Ukraine are all on record stating that they never intended to respect the Minsk Agreements. That is a whole lot more than "an opinion".
Rebuttal:
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/merkel-admitted-that-the-minsk-agreements-were-a-ruse-to-rearm-ukrainian-armed-forces/
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/french-president-hollande-never-intended-to-abide-by-the-minsk-agreements/
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/france-germany-failed-to-encourage-ukraines-implementation-of-the-minsk-agreements/
Merkel's statement is not saying that these nations never intended to abide by the Minsk agreement, she's saying that they never thought Russia would abide by it so they considered it a frozen conflict, and that the end result was that it bought Ukraine time. They were probably correct in that assumption.
These nations never intended to abide by the Minsk agreement. Got it.
They didn't think it would work because Russia was going to keep doing stuff anyway, but they made efforts to abide by it.
So they broke the Minsk Agreements because they thought that Russia was going to break the Minsk Agreements, even though the heads of state of Ukraine, Germany and France all admitted that they were never going to abide by the MA in the first place - OK.
What did they do to break the Minsk agreements?
EDIT: And to be clear about this, I don't mean what they SAID about Minsk. I mean, what did they DO to break the agreement? Actions, not words.
April 30, 2015
How the Senate Armed Services Committee Is Undermining Minsk II
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/how-senate-armed-services-committee-undermining-minsk-ii/Quote:
According to FT, German diplomats expressed frustration that Kiev is "dragging its feet" in implementing the agreement. For his part, French President Franl;ois Holland has warned Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that "the only line of conduct is the full implementation of the Minsk accord."
Yet it seems these calls for a peaceful solution to the crisis are not only falling on deaf ears, but are also purposefully being undermined, in Washington.
To wit: the same day the aforementioned troika met in Belgrade, the 28th, the Senate Armed Services Committee held a hearing on "United States Security Policy in Europe," though perhaps, given the tenor of the hearing, it should have been held under the rubric "The Russians are Coming!"
Armed Services Committee Chairman, Senator John McCain (R-AZ), got right to the point, running down a list of Russia's sinsreal and imagined. He derided the Obama administration's "so-called reset" policy and warned of Mr. Putin's "neo-imperial objectives." McCain accused Russia of violating the Minsk II cease-fire agreement and hectored NATO allies to follow the example of Poland and Estonia and increase its defense expenditures. Unbelievably, McCain closed his remarks by telling the gallery, which included a visiting delegation of Ukrainian parliamentarians, that "none of us wants to return to the Cold War."
Depressingly, there seemed to be little daylight between McCain and the committee's ranking member, Senator Jack Reed (D-RI). Both he and McCain have called on President Obama to "provide defense lethal assistance" to Ukraine. Only Senators Angus King (I-ME) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) expressed any skepticism towards the idea of sending lethal aid to Ukraine. The situation that pertains in the Washington of 2015, is in stark contrast to the previous Cold War. Today, it would seem, Democrats and Republicans are engaged in a contest of who can 'out-hawk' the other on Russia.
Okay, so once again here I see more people talking about arming Ukraine further, but this is pretty light on specific actions.
Also, we might need to define terms. What are the Minsk terms (in your view) and how do you consider them to have been violated here?
MINSK 2 WAS A SCAM Western leaders were not interested in reaching an agreement with Russia - Merkel Confirms Ukraine Peace Deal Was a Ploy pic.twitter.com/y6k73lKaWX
— Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil (@ivan_8848) December 31, 2024

