ICE

156,740 Views | 2771 Replies | Last: 23 hrs ago by movielover
BearlySane88
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dajo9 said:

SBGold said:

Wow, the lack of care for the loss of life is totally reprehensible. This is MAGA


Careful. You can get suspended for such comments.


Especially when it's not even an accurate assessment of posters here. Most posters here have said they are sorry for the loss of his life and that it's ****ty he was killed.
PAC-10-BEAR
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BearlySane88
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DiabloWags said:

sycasey said:


Pretty clear that for some folks here there is nothing the cops could do that would seem wrong to them.




Yup.

6 ICE officers with one citizen on the ground that is TOTALLY RESTRAINED..
No mob. No rocks being thrown. No molotov cocktails being tossed.
No evidence of him being a criminal or engaging in a crime.

And people here continue to post and imply that the cops firing 10 bullets into him was legit.
Because he wasn't standing on the sidewalk?

Oh please.



What video did you watch that showed him "TOTALLY RESTRAINED"

His hands and arms were still free and tucked under him. He certainly wasn't in cuffs yet.
DiabloWags
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tequila4kapp said:

DiabloWags said:

sycasey said:


Pretty clear that for some folks here there is nothing the cops could do that would seem wrong to them.




Yup.

6 ICE officers with one citizen on the ground that is TOTALLY RESTRAINED..
No mob. No rocks being thrown. No molotov cocktails being tossed.
No evidence of him being a criminal or engaging in a crime.

And people here continue to post and imply that the cops firing 10 bullets into him was legit.


He absolutely was not "totally restrained." They did not have his hands behind his back and he was not cuffed. And the reason is that he was resisting.



Let's assume for a moment that what you just said is true.
Are we to assume that 6 ICE officers were unable to properly restrain a single suspect and cuff them?

Sure sounds like these people weren't trained properly.
Or are you continuing to claim that they were?

I've had 2 former high ranking FBI agents here in the Bay Area tell me as much along with a recently retired police lieutenant at a local East Bay police department.

ICE personnel are not getting the normal 5-months of training.
It's 47 days.





"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
PAC-10-BEAR
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White liberals interfering with ICE agents - 2
Multi-racial coalition of iCE agents - 0
PAC-10-BEAR
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Anarchistbear
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DiabloWags said:

cal83dls79 said:

I suspected this to be a possibility as well. "Easy enough to check". …..this assumes that the evidence is preserved and an investigation is undertaken. Was it and is it?
You'd think it would be important so as to learn a thing or two how to handle these situations without bloodshed


The Minneapolis Police Chief has already stated that the "scene" has been contaminated.

Interestingly enough, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension was refused access to investigate the scene by the Feds and the FBI isn't involved. The latter is highly bizarre for a case like this.






Perp was a "domestic terrorist out to massacre" so labeled by the Adminstration. This case is closed.

BearlySane88
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DiabloWags said:

tequila4kapp said:

DiabloWags said:

sycasey said:


Pretty clear that for some folks here there is nothing the cops could do that would seem wrong to them.




Yup.

6 ICE officers with one citizen on the ground that is TOTALLY RESTRAINED..
No mob. No rocks being thrown. No molotov cocktails being tossed.
No evidence of him being a criminal or engaging in a crime.

And people here continue to post and imply that the cops firing 10 bullets into him was legit.


He absolutely was not "totally restrained." They did not have his hands behind his back and he was not cuffed. And the reason is that he was resisting.



Let's assume for a moment that what you just said is true.
Are we to assume that 6 ICE officers were unable to properly restrain a single suspect and cuff them?

Sure sounds like these people weren't trained properly.
Or are you continuing to claim that they were?

I've had 2 former high ranking FBI agents here in the Bay Area tell me as much along with a recently retired police lieutenant at a local East Bay police department.






What he said is true. Have you ever tried to get a grown man's arms behind him while he's resisting?
BearlySane88
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Anarchistbear said:

DiabloWags said:

cal83dls79 said:

I suspected this to be a possibility as well. "Easy enough to check". …..this assumes that the evidence is preserved and an investigation is undertaken. Was it and is it?
You'd think it would be important so as to learn a thing or two how to handle these situations without bloodshed


The Minneapolis Police Chief has already stated that the "scene" has been contaminated.

Interestingly enough, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension was refused access to investigate the scene by the Feds and the FBI isn't involved. The latter is highly bizarre for a case like this.






Perp was a "domestic terrorist out to massacre" so labeled by the Adminstration. This case is close.




I will say I disagree with the administration on using this type of language. Do I think he holds responsibility for what happened, yes in large part. Do I think he was actively trying to massacre ICE, no. He was however incredibly stupid.
tequila4kapp
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I invite you to watch any of the thousands of video showing LEO struggles to actually control a person and get cuffs on them. You will see that yes, it is absolutely normal for X number of LEO to not be able to fully control a single person and get cuffs on them. It even happens with physically smaller females. Eventually the individual gets fatigued and LEO prevails. Sometimes the suspect has to be pepper sprayed. It is not as clean and simple and easy as we lay people would think when the person is actively resisting.

This brings me back to prior comments about CCP behavior and bringing a gun. If he didn't have the gun LEO would have eventually wore him down to the point they could get his hands behind his back and cuff him. Unfortunately some saw it and yelled "gun" and we are where we are.
PAC-10-BEAR
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DiabloWags said:

No empathy required.

No illegal immigrants have been shot in the process.
tequila4kapp
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Anarchistbear said:

DiabloWags said:

cal83dls79 said:

I suspected this to be a possibility as well. "Easy enough to check". …..this assumes that the evidence is preserved and an investigation is undertaken. Was it and is it?
You'd think it would be important so as to learn a thing or two how to handle these situations without bloodshed


The Minneapolis Police Chief has already stated that the "scene" has been contaminated.

Interestingly enough, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension was refused access to investigate the scene by the Feds and the FBI isn't involved. The latter is highly bizarre for a case like this.





Perp was a "domestic terrorist out to massacre" so labeled by the Adminstration. This case is close.

I hate what the Admin is saying. It is wrong, inflammatory and unnecessary. It also blurs the line between supporting LEO and defending the admin, which I dislike.
PAC-10-BEAR
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J6 selfie grandma was labeled an insurrectionist.
PAC-10-BEAR
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Please elevate the nurse to George Floyd status.
PAC-10-BEAR
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tequila4kapp said:

Anarchistbear said:



Perp was a "domestic terrorist out to massacre" so labeled by the Adminstration. This case is close.

I hate what the Admin is saying. It is wrong, inflammatory and unnecessary. It also blurs the line between supporting LEO and defending the admin, which I dislike.

But we're numb to the fact when the entirety of the other side labels regular people as fascists, Nazis, white supremacists, MAGATs, and deplorables.
Anarchistbear
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Cool
smh
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ice sucks, big time (r.i.p. blueblood)
FUNK TRUNK !
Aunburdened
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Anarchistbear said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:





The liberal strategy on this, I guess, is since not enough people care about brown people being arrested and abused for being brown people, let's get as many dumbass white liberals to start physical confrontations with ICE agents that will always end in ICE 7, Confrontational Liberal 0. And that's not to say that the ICE agent is always right or is ever right even once in the situation for shooting the other person, but that the angry white liberal is never ever ever going to come out the winner in that situation.

If you think that's a cause worth throwing your life away for, by all means let's thin the herd of these dumbass white liberals who think they can confront armed feds and come out the winner. Less future idiots who will vote for vapid idiots like Gavin Newsom, Jasmine Crockett, Kamala Harris, et al.

Better smarter strategy is to protest non-violently with your voice and your words and your signs, and your stupid chants and stop threatening armed feds who are looking for any excuse to shoot you.


I agree that it makes no sense to confront people with guns who a) are not local and b) ready to use them. It's more like US soldiers in Iraq than police who are under the auspices of government

Where we disagree is that this part of an organized "liberal" protest at the behest of Dem pols. It's not and not like the bull$hot " No Kings" which is.

What is going on in Minnesota is surveillance of ICE through local signal groups. Local groups know where they are at any moment and are often there minutes after they are. The people that are missing are local police and that creates a flash point between the occupiers and would be resisters ( who if smarter would take the tactics of either non violence or the IRA). Instead everything is treated as a recording

There is a lot else happening which is less reported. There are food drives and material drives for immigrants. There was an organized strike, where businesses voluntarily closed. There have been protests against airlines flying deportees out and boycotts of businesses. Minneapolis is not businesss as usual

The Democratic Party is against all of this because it disturbs the status quo. Their approach is to have Gavin Newsom tweet that Kristi Noem should resign.

So let the protests continue but with better tactics.



I don't believe I said anything about the Democratic Party organizing this. Certainly, they've been happy to turn up the temperature with their rhetoric, but they're not gonna get their hands dirty in something like this.

Privately behind the scenes though, they're thrilled that someone else is martyring for them so that they can gain a few points in the polls.
Aunburdened
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sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:





The liberal strategy on this, I guess, is since not enough people care about brown people being arrested and abused for being brown people, let's get as many dumbass white liberals to start physical confrontations with ICE agents that will always end in ICE 7, Confrontational Liberal 0. And that's not to say that the ICE agent is always right or is ever right even once in the situation for shooting the other person, but that the angry white liberal is never ever ever going to come out the winner in that situation.

If you think that's a cause worth throwing your life away for, by all means let's thin the herd of these dumbass white liberals who think they can confront armed feds and come out the winner. Less future idiots who will vote for vapid idiots like Gavin Newsom, Jasmine Crockett, Kamala Harris, et al.

Better smarter strategy is to protest non-violently with your voice and your words and your signs, and your stupid chants and stop threatening armed feds who are looking for any excuse to shoot you.


I agree that it makes no sense to confront people with guns who a) are not local and b) ready to use them. It's more like US soldiers in Iraq than police who are under the auspices of government

Perhaps, but let's be honest: most of the public would likely not know how abusive ICE is being without some of these "dumba*s white liberals" forcing the confrontations. These incidents captured on video are quickly turning public opinion and forcing the politicians to react.

It also seems to me, based on the videos, that it's largely ICE being confrontational here. Protestors are there being generally annoying but ICE chooses to engage people they could otherwise just leave alone.

I'm so glad two people died so you could do 50 virtue signalling posts a day on the topic. Totally worth it.
BearlySane88
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Aunburdened
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bearister said:

Why didn't these ICE shootings take place under Obama, Trump I or Biden?



Anarchistbear
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Aunburdened said:

Anarchistbear said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:





The liberal strategy on this, I guess, is since not enough people care about brown people being arrested and abused for being brown people, let's get as many dumbass white liberals to start physical confrontations with ICE agents that will always end in ICE 7, Confrontational Liberal 0. And that's not to say that the ICE agent is always right or is ever right even once in the situation for shooting the other person, but that the angry white liberal is never ever ever going to come out the winner in that situation.

If you think that's a cause worth throwing your life away for, by all means let's thin the herd of these dumbass white liberals who think they can confront armed feds and come out the winner. Less future idiots who will vote for vapid idiots like Gavin Newsom, Jasmine Crockett, Kamala Harris, et al.

Better smarter strategy is to protest non-violently with your voice and your words and your signs, and your stupid chants and stop threatening armed feds who are looking for any excuse to shoot you.


I agree that it makes no sense to confront people with guns who a) are not local and b) ready to use them. It's more like US soldiers in Iraq than police who are under the auspices of government

Where we disagree is that this part of an organized "liberal" protest at the behest of Dem pols. It's not and not like the bull$hot " No Kings" which is.

What is going on in Minnesota is surveillance of ICE through local signal groups. Local groups know where they are at any moment and are often there minutes after they are. The people that are missing are local police and that creates a flash point between the occupiers and would be resisters ( who if smarter would take the tactics of either non violence or the IRA). Instead everything is treated as a recording

There is a lot else happening which is less reported. There are food drives and material drives for immigrants. There was an organized strike, where businesses voluntarily closed. There have been protests against airlines flying deportees out and boycotts of businesses. Minneapolis is not businesss as usual

The Democratic Party is against all of this because it disturbs the status quo. Their approach is to have Gavin Newsom tweet that Kristi Noem should resign.

So let the protests continue but with better tactics.



I don't believe I said anything about the Democratic Party organizing this. Certainly, they've been happy to turn up the temperature with their rhetoric, but they're not gonna get their hands dirty in something like this.

Privately behind the scenes though, they're thrilled that someone else is martyring for them so that they can gain a few points in the polls.


Agree but they don't really know what to do and they've already lost the room. There will be some pro forma **** about the rule of law, and ICE training but everyone knows they are enablers not an opposition.
Aunburdened
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PAC-10-BEAR said:

SBGold said:

Wow, the lack of care for the loss of life is totally reprehensible. This is MAGA

Every tragedy is a win for the far left's cause.

Besides, even when the angry white liberal dies, he'll still be able to vote in future elections via mail-in ballot
Aunburdened
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Anarchistbear said:

Aunburdened said:

Anarchistbear said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:





The liberal strategy on this, I guess, is since not enough people care about brown people being arrested and abused for being brown people, let's get as many dumbass white liberals to start physical confrontations with ICE agents that will always end in ICE 7, Confrontational Liberal 0. And that's not to say that the ICE agent is always right or is ever right even once in the situation for shooting the other person, but that the angry white liberal is never ever ever going to come out the winner in that situation.

If you think that's a cause worth throwing your life away for, by all means let's thin the herd of these dumbass white liberals who think they can confront armed feds and come out the winner. Less future idiots who will vote for vapid idiots like Gavin Newsom, Jasmine Crockett, Kamala Harris, et al.

Better smarter strategy is to protest non-violently with your voice and your words and your signs, and your stupid chants and stop threatening armed feds who are looking for any excuse to shoot you.


I agree that it makes no sense to confront people with guns who a) are not local and b) ready to use them. It's more like US soldiers in Iraq than police who are under the auspices of government

Where we disagree is that this part of an organized "liberal" protest at the behest of Dem pols. It's not and not like the bull$hot " No Kings" which is.

What is going on in Minnesota is surveillance of ICE through local signal groups. Local groups know where they are at any moment and are often there minutes after they are. The people that are missing are local police and that creates a flash point between the occupiers and would be resisters ( who if smarter would take the tactics of either non violence or the IRA). Instead everything is treated as a recording

There is a lot else happening which is less reported. There are food drives and material drives for immigrants. There was an organized strike, where businesses voluntarily closed. There have been protests against airlines flying deportees out and boycotts of businesses. Minneapolis is not businesss as usual

The Democratic Party is against all of this because it disturbs the status quo. Their approach is to have Gavin Newsom tweet that Kristi Noem should resign.

So let the protests continue but with better tactics.



I don't believe I said anything about the Democratic Party organizing this. Certainly, they've been happy to turn up the temperature with their rhetoric, but they're not gonna get their hands dirty in something like this.

Privately behind the scenes though, they're thrilled that someone else is martyring for them so that they can gain a few points in the polls.


Agree but they don't really know what to do and they've already lost the room. There will be some pro forma **** about the rule of law, and ICE training but everyone knows they are enablers not an opposition.

I really wish I could say "everybody knows" and that people who have been loyally voting Democrat for decades are finally ready to turn on them, but then I see election results and the incumbents always win and nothing ever changes. The numbers are growing, but not enough to change anything.
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

Pretti rushed an ICE officer.

Wait, WHAT? When?



sycasey
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Aunburdened said:

Anarchistbear said:

Aunburdened said:

Anarchistbear said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:





The liberal strategy on this, I guess, is since not enough people care about brown people being arrested and abused for being brown people, let's get as many dumbass white liberals to start physical confrontations with ICE agents that will always end in ICE 7, Confrontational Liberal 0. And that's not to say that the ICE agent is always right or is ever right even once in the situation for shooting the other person, but that the angry white liberal is never ever ever going to come out the winner in that situation.

If you think that's a cause worth throwing your life away for, by all means let's thin the herd of these dumbass white liberals who think they can confront armed feds and come out the winner. Less future idiots who will vote for vapid idiots like Gavin Newsom, Jasmine Crockett, Kamala Harris, et al.

Better smarter strategy is to protest non-violently with your voice and your words and your signs, and your stupid chants and stop threatening armed feds who are looking for any excuse to shoot you.


I agree that it makes no sense to confront people with guns who a) are not local and b) ready to use them. It's more like US soldiers in Iraq than police who are under the auspices of government

Where we disagree is that this part of an organized "liberal" protest at the behest of Dem pols. It's not and not like the bull$hot " No Kings" which is.

What is going on in Minnesota is surveillance of ICE through local signal groups. Local groups know where they are at any moment and are often there minutes after they are. The people that are missing are local police and that creates a flash point between the occupiers and would be resisters ( who if smarter would take the tactics of either non violence or the IRA). Instead everything is treated as a recording

There is a lot else happening which is less reported. There are food drives and material drives for immigrants. There was an organized strike, where businesses voluntarily closed. There have been protests against airlines flying deportees out and boycotts of businesses. Minneapolis is not businesss as usual

The Democratic Party is against all of this because it disturbs the status quo. Their approach is to have Gavin Newsom tweet that Kristi Noem should resign.

So let the protests continue but with better tactics.



I don't believe I said anything about the Democratic Party organizing this. Certainly, they've been happy to turn up the temperature with their rhetoric, but they're not gonna get their hands dirty in something like this.

Privately behind the scenes though, they're thrilled that someone else is martyring for them so that they can gain a few points in the polls.


Agree but they don't really know what to do and they've already lost the room. There will be some pro forma **** about the rule of law, and ICE training but everyone knows they are enablers not an opposition.

I really wish I could say "everybody knows" and that people who have been loyally voting Democrat for decades are finally ready to turn on them, but then I see election results and the incumbents always win and nothing ever changes. The numbers are growing, but not enough to change anything.

Most political party shifts happen gradually, because some people are still in office and it takes time to filter out the old guard. I don't know how far this will go, but IMO Anarchist is right that there is a shift fomenting in the Dem base.
BearlySane88
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sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

Pretti rushed an ICE officer.

Wait, WHAT? When?






I get words can be important but I think you're reading "rushed" in a different way than was implied. At the two second mark he came towards and put hands on the ICE officer.
sycasey
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Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:





The liberal strategy on this, I guess, is since not enough people care about brown people being arrested and abused for being brown people, let's get as many dumbass white liberals to start physical confrontations with ICE agents that will always end in ICE 7, Confrontational Liberal 0. And that's not to say that the ICE agent is always right or is ever right even once in the situation for shooting the other person, but that the angry white liberal is never ever ever going to come out the winner in that situation.

If you think that's a cause worth throwing your life away for, by all means let's thin the herd of these dumbass white liberals who think they can confront armed feds and come out the winner. Less future idiots who will vote for vapid idiots like Gavin Newsom, Jasmine Crockett, Kamala Harris, et al.

Better smarter strategy is to protest non-violently with your voice and your words and your signs, and your stupid chants and stop threatening armed feds who are looking for any excuse to shoot you.


I agree that it makes no sense to confront people with guns who a) are not local and b) ready to use them. It's more like US soldiers in Iraq than police who are under the auspices of government

Perhaps, but let's be honest: most of the public would likely not know how abusive ICE is being without some of these "dumba*s white liberals" forcing the confrontations. These incidents captured on video are quickly turning public opinion and forcing the politicians to react.

It also seems to me, based on the videos, that it's largely ICE being confrontational here. Protestors are there being generally annoying but ICE chooses to engage people they could otherwise just leave alone.

I'm so glad two people died so you could do 50 virtue signalling posts a day on the topic. Totally worth it.

I would prefer that ICE not have flipped out and killed those people, but it happened and I will talk about it.
sycasey
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BearlySane88 said:

sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

Pretti rushed an ICE officer.

Wait, WHAT? When?






I get words can be important but I think you're reading "rushed" in a different way than was implied. At the two second mark he came towards and put hands on the ICE officer.

This is not a definition that anyone, anywhere would assume when you say a person was "rushed."
DiabloWags
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sycasey said:

This is not a definition that anyone, anywhere would assume when you say a person was "rushed."

You are correct.

I've noticed that reading comprehension by Cal alums here can be challenging at times.
Not sure why that is.

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
BearlySane88
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sycasey said:

BearlySane88 said:

sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

Pretti rushed an ICE officer.

Wait, WHAT? When?






I get words can be important but I think you're reading "rushed" in a different way than was implied. At the two second mark he came towards and put hands on the ICE officer.

This is not a definition that anyone, anywhere would assume when you say a person was "rushed."


Rushing a law enforcement officer to me just means approaches aggressively which he did after the initial interaction but I hear you. Again you're arguing semantics imo
tequila4kapp
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sycasey said:

BearlySane88 said:

sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

Pretti rushed an ICE officer.

Wait, WHAT? When?






I get words can be important but I think you're reading "rushed" in a different way than was implied. At the two second mark he came towards and put hands on the ICE officer.

This is not a definition that anyone, anywhere would assume when you say a person was "rushed."

sycasey said:



Within the first 4 seconds of the video. He moved toward the officer - covered between 2-4 steps or shuffles, got between the officer and the woman and put his hand on the officer. He moved quickly and purposefully. "Rushed" is an acceptable description, IMO.

And again, he did that while being a CCP with a firearm who presumably has not announced that he's carrying to the officers. If that proves true this is off the charts irresponsible, stupid and dangerous.
BearlySane88
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DiabloWags said:

sycasey said:

This is not a definition that anyone, anywhere would assume when you say a person was "rushed."

You are correct.




"Sometimes used figuratively" but you didn't highlight that part
BearlySane88
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tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

BearlySane88 said:

sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

Pretti rushed an ICE officer.

Wait, WHAT? When?






I get words can be important but I think you're reading "rushed" in a different way than was implied. At the two second mark he came towards and put hands on the ICE officer.

This is not a definition that anyone, anywhere would assume when you say a person was "rushed."

sycasey said:



Within the first 4 seconds of the video. He moved toward the officer - covered between 2-4 steps or shuffles, got between the officer and the woman and put his hand on the officer. He moved quickly and purposefully. "Rushed" is an acceptable description, IMO.

And again, he did that while being a CCP with a firearm who presumably has not announced that he's carrying to the officers. If that proves true this is off the charts irresponsible, stupid and dangerous.


I agree but I did read this morning that Minnesota isn't a state you are legally required to inform an LEO that you are carrying. You can't lie to them if they ask but you don't have to announce it as you do in other states
tequila4kapp
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Understood. I didn't mean to say it was a legal requirement. I do not remember that it's a legal requirement here in Oregon, either. But it's part of the CCP training, for the reasons I've already mentioned
 
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