BearForce2 said:

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Taliban's white flag over the presidential palace in #Kabul.#Afghanistan@saadmohseni pic.twitter.com/HhcvyVYAg0

— Hadees Pardes (@hadesspardes) August 15, 2021

Rarely has an American president's predictions been so wrong, so fast, so convincingly as Biden on Afghanistan. Usually military operations and diplomacy are long; the outcomes, foggy.

Not here.https://t.co/MQhcu8dAzH

— Axios (@axios) August 15, 2021

Where's Joe Biden?

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Your GLEE is duly noted.

Bear With Me said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Biden's position:

Quote:

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When I came to office, I inherited a deal cut by my predecessorwhich he invited the Taliban to discuss at Camp David on the eve of 9/11 of 2019that left the Taliban in the strongest position militarily since 2001 and imposed a May 1, 2021 deadline on U.S. Forces. Shortly before he left office, he also drew U.S. Forces down to a bare minimum of 2,500. Therefore, when I became President, I faced a choicefollow through on the deal, with a brief extension to get our Forces and our allies' Forces out safely, or ramp up our presence and send more American troops to fight once again in another country's civil conflict. I was the fourth President to preside over an American troop presence in Afghanistantwo Republicans, two Democrats. I would not, and will not, pass this war onto a fifth.

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I think this tweet is fairly accurate regarding the response we are seeing from a lot of people.

As those deployed overseas said years ago: “America is not at war, the military is at war. America is at the mall.“
For many Americans, now claiming to be enraged about Afghanistan is mostly performance art and a mild case of a guilty conscience. They’ll get over it. At the mall.

— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) August 15, 2021

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The mall? ***? What decade is this dude stuck in?

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I mean, he's referencing a saying he heard "years ago," so I think he's aware that the analogy comes from another time.

BearForce2 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Where's Joe Biden?

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Your GLEE is duly noted.

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It's not a happy situation for anyone.

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I agree but I can't see you giving the situation one tenth as much attention if it had happened a year or two ago.

Anarchistbear said:

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This is no different than how Vietnam ended. When you wage an unpopular colonial war of occupation under the lies of "democracy", "nation building" or other bull**** you really shouldn't be amazed when it collapses as soon as military is removed.

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Absolutely, Spot on!

What do I think? I think I predicted all of this over a month ago.
https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/102338/replies/1888782

I also think Biden expected more of a fight from our Afghani allies.

dajo9 said:

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What do I think? I think I predicted all of this over a month ago.
https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/102338/replies/1888782

I also think Biden expected more of a fight from our Afghani allies.

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LOL, spot on.

kelly09 said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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This is no different than how Vietnam ended. When you wage an unpopular colonial war of occupation under the lies of "democracy", "nation building" or other bull**** you really shouldn't be amazed when it collapses as soon as military is removed.

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Absolutely, Spot on!

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The only difference being you have to award bonus points to ARVN for lasting 2 years after the cavalry left Dodge. The Afghani Army went tits up before we finished packing.

What happened, as the hawkish experts are aware but are trying to dupe you into not realizing, is that the Trump administration signed a deal with the Taliban that they opposed.

— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) August 16, 2021

But as the hawk experts know, if Biden had torn up the Trump agreement the Taliban would have gone on te offense anyway and we'd have had to send more troops and incur (and inflict) more casualties.

Biden was too experienced to fall for that. So now they want to punish him.

— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) August 16, 2021

I promise you, there is not a single military analysis, defense correspondent, or think tank fellow who is unaware that the lack of American casualties was the result of a Trump-era policy they opposed and Biden upheld.

If they're not mentioning that, they're tricking you.

— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) August 16, 2021

"One man cannot oppress another man down in a ditch without staying there with him." - GW

oski003 said:

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What happened this past week was just Biden continuing what Trump was doing, right?

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I remember Trump announcing a withdrawal from Afghanistan, so what about this is untrue? "LOL" is not a rebuttal.

oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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What happened this past week was just Biden continuing what Trump was doing, right?

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I remember Trump announcing a withdrawal from Afghanistan, so what about this is untrue? "LOL" is not a rebuttal.

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Use your mouse and scroll up. I only added the LOL post because I forgot to link the ridiculous tweets on my response. My response is common sense for a non-apologist.

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So no response, got it. Just an appeal to "common sense."

My position is that Afghanistan is a slow-rolling failure across multiple administrations, including Bush, Obama, and Trump. Biden is just being stuck with the endgame right now. If you have an argument to refute that position, I'm all ears.

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Did you scroll up? You do that with the mouse. Honestly, I am criticizing Okaydo's Twitter link and you are just responding with garbage.

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Garbage in, garbage out.

JUST IN: "The Crew made the decision to go" — Inside RCH 871, which saved 640 from the Taliban ... from @TaraCopp and me https://t.co/r4YvGqJZ4b pic.twitter.com/CI1mAmqjHT

— Marcus Weisgerber (@MarcusReports) August 16, 2021

* I didn't know Southwest flew in that part of the world.

The Taliban are not the most educated of folk, but they know the area* pretty well, 'cause it's theirs. They knew just the right moment to step things up, as the US really started to pull out and the Afghanistan government forces (such as they are) turned and ran. Taliban leaders knew that this would make them seem more powerful and decisive.

Oops. But so what? We're doing the right thing. We have no strategic interest there. Humanitarian interest, sure, but that could be said for tons of spots on the globe. (Cool that we increased the literacy rate for a generation of women there, but we can do the same somewhere else, if we want. Maybe right here at home, for starters.)

Trump and Biden both agreed on this issue. What does that tell you? The only people who think we should be there are the "experts" who are intellectually or financially invested in the US policing the world.

Did Joe Biden lie to the American people about how the pull-out would unfold? LOL, how many times did Trump lie to the American people? They kept count: Wasn't it WELL into the thousands? Wake me up when Biden gets to ONE PERCENT of that...



* I hesitate to even call Afghanistan a "country". It is, but in name only. It is a huge area, much of it desolate, with different groups of people speaking different languages and not much of anything tying them all together. They can sort things out themselves for awhile. If they ever want/need help, there are lots of "powers" in that region to help them. If they start the "terrorist camps thing" again, well, that's why we have drones.

Big C said:

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The Taliban are not the most educated of folk, but they know the area* pretty well, 'cause it's theirs. They knew just the right moment to step things up, as the US really started to pull out and the Afghanistan government (such as it is) forces turned and ran. This makes them look more powerful and decisive.

Oops. But so what? We're doing the right thing. We have no strategic interest there. Humanitarian interest, sure, but that could be said for tons of spots on the globe. (Cool that we increased the literacy rate for a generation of women there, but we can do the same somewhere else, if we want.)

Trump and Biden both agreed on this. What does that tell you? The only people who think we should be there are the "experts" who are intellectually or financially invested in the US policing the world.

Did Joe Biden lie to the American people about how the pull-out would unfold? LOL, how many times did Trump lie to the American people? They kept count: Wasn't it WELL into the thousands? Wake me up when Biden gets to ONE PERCENT of that...



* I hesitate to even call Afghanistan a "country". It is, but in name only. It is a huge area with different groups of people speaking different languages and not much of anything tying them all together.

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Agree that Trump lied a lot too. I lost all respect for him.

Big C said:

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The Taliban are not the most educated of folk, but they know the area* pretty well, 'cause it's theirs. They knew just the right moment to step things up, as the US really started to pull out and the Afghanistan government (such as it is) forces turned and ran. This makes them look more powerful and decisive.

Oops. But so what? We're doing the right thing. We have no strategic interest there. Humanitarian interest, sure, but that could be said for tons of spots on the globe. (Cool that we increased the literacy rate for a generation of women there, but we can do the same somewhere else, if we want.)

Trump and Biden both agreed on this. What does that tell you? The only people who think we should be there are the "experts" who are intellectually or financially invested in the US policing the world.

Did Joe Biden lie to the American people about how the pull-out would unfold? LOL, how many times did Trump lie to the American people? They kept count: Wasn't it WELL into the thousands? Wake me up when Biden gets to ONE PERCENT of that...



* I hesitate to even call Afghanistan a "country". It is, but in name only. It is a huge area with different groups of people speaking different languages and not much of anything tying them all together.

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I do wonder if you asked a normal Afghan person what they are, if they would say afghani or whatever tribe they are from. Point being, do the locals even believe in a united Afghan country, because to me it does not appear so, and the USA should not force them be within one.

Nonetheless, if another failed state develops that allows jihadists to start recruiting, training, planning and carrying out attacks against Americans. I would support military action to destroy the bases, camps and other infrastructure supporting those activities (you cant just let them take shots at you). Only this time, we go in, neutralize the threat and get back out, no need to nation build.

As for how we get them to stop hating us. Not being there is a good first step. Heck, the US and Vietnam are actually solid allies now.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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Big C said:

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The Taliban are not the most educated of folk, but they know the area* pretty well, 'cause it's theirs. They knew just the right moment to step things up, as the US really started to pull out and the Afghanistan government (such as it is) forces turned and ran. This makes them look more powerful and decisive.

Oops. But so what? We're doing the right thing. We have no strategic interest there. Humanitarian interest, sure, but that could be said for tons of spots on the globe. (Cool that we increased the literacy rate for a generation of women there, but we can do the same somewhere else, if we want.)

Trump and Biden both agreed on this. What does that tell you? The only people who think we should be there are the "experts" who are intellectually or financially invested in the US policing the world.

Did Joe Biden lie to the American people about how the pull-out would unfold? LOL, how many times did Trump lie to the American people? They kept count: Wasn't it WELL into the thousands? Wake me up when Biden gets to ONE PERCENT of that...



* I hesitate to even call Afghanistan a "country". It is, but in name only. It is a huge area with different groups of people speaking different languages and not much of anything tying them all together.

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Agree that Trump lied a lot too. I lost all respect for him.

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That's also why there's no reason to believe he would have actually stuck to his plan to get out of Afghanistan. If I had to put money on it, I would have bet on it becoming another Infrastructure Week (something else Trump talked a lot about but Biden actually got done, by the way).

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Increasingly convinced that Trump would have gotten rolled into staying because he cares way more about cable news than Biden https://t.co/FpAMSZRx6a

— tyson brody (@tysonbrody) August 16, 2021

Honestly O.J.'s presidential prospects would be strong if he hadn't murdered his wife.

A lesson there for everyone thinking of trying to get away with murder. https://t.co/XZlGVN5uk4

— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) August 16, 2021

oski003 said:

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Big C said:

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The Taliban are not the most educated of folk, but they know the area* pretty well, 'cause it's theirs. They knew just the right moment to step things up, as the US really started to pull out and the Afghanistan government (such as it is) forces turned and ran. This makes them look more powerful and decisive.

Oops. But so what? We're doing the right thing. We have no strategic interest there. Humanitarian interest, sure, but that could be said for tons of spots on the globe. (Cool that we increased the literacy rate for a generation of women there, but we can do the same somewhere else, if we want.)

Trump and Biden both agreed on this. What does that tell you? The only people who think we should be there are the "experts" who are intellectually or financially invested in the US policing the world.

Did Joe Biden lie to the American people about how the pull-out would unfold? LOL, how many times did Trump lie to the American people? They kept count: Wasn't it WELL into the thousands? Wake me up when Biden gets to ONE PERCENT of that...



* I hesitate to even call Afghanistan a "country". It is, but in name only. It is a huge area with different groups of people speaking different languages and not much of anything tying them all together.

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Agree that Trump lied a lot too. I lost all respect for him.

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All politicians lie, right? Some more than others... some with evil intent... some thinking that that particular lie is somehow serving the greater good... some just too caught up in their own s***...

When is a lie actually a good thing? Discuss. Actually, maybe don't.

golden sloth said:

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Big C said:

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The Taliban are not the most educated of folk, but they know the area* pretty well, 'cause it's theirs. They knew just the right moment to step things up, as the US really started to pull out and the Afghanistan government (such as it is) forces turned and ran. This makes them look more powerful and decisive.

Oops. But so what? We're doing the right thing. We have no strategic interest there. Humanitarian interest, sure, but that could be said for tons of spots on the globe. (Cool that we increased the literacy rate for a generation of women there, but we can do the same somewhere else, if we want.)

Trump and Biden both agreed on this. What does that tell you? The only people who think we should be there are the "experts" who are intellectually or financially invested in the US policing the world.

Did Joe Biden lie to the American people about how the pull-out would unfold? LOL, how many times did Trump lie to the American people? They kept count: Wasn't it WELL into the thousands? Wake me up when Biden gets to ONE PERCENT of that...



* I hesitate to even call Afghanistan a "country". It is, but in name only. It is a huge area with different groups of people speaking different languages and not much of anything tying them all together.

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I do wonder if you asked a normal Afghan person what they are, if they would say afghani or whatever tribe they are from. Point being, do the locals even believe in a united Afghan country, because to me it does not appear so, and the USA should not force them be within one.

Nonetheless, if another failed state develops that allows jihadists to start recruiting, training, planning and carrying out attacks against Americans. I would support military action to destroy the bases, camps and other infrastructure supporting those activities (you cant just let them take shots at you). Only this time, we go in, neutralize the threat and get back out, no need to nation build.

As for how we get them to stop hating us. Not being there is a good first step. Heck, the US and Vietnam are actually solid allies now.

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I had occasion recently, to chat with an "expert" (Cal prof, in that field). I asked him, if it were possible to poll everybody in Afghanistan over 18, if they wanted a US presence there...

+2 for strongly yes
+1 for yes
0 for no opinion
-1 for no
-2 for strongly no

What would be the "total"?

Initial response: "You would be surprised at the number of people, outside of Kabul, who would answer "0" because they had no idea what you were even talking about."

Second response: "I don't know. Maybe about zero; maybe plus a little bit. It doesn't matter. We shouldn't be there."