oski003 said:

---

bearister said:

---

" Former President Donald Trump gushed about the prospect of a Taliban-led Afghanistan last year, predicting that once they took over the country, they would devote themselves to killing terrorists.

Amid a blizzard of criticism for the chaos that has envelpoed Afghanistan as President Joe Biden completes the U.S withdrawal from the country, former Trump and members of his former administration have joined in to heap blame on their successors.

But last February, months after canceling a planned meeting with the Taliban that would have placed the group's leaders inside the White House on Septembr 11th, Trump gloried in the idea of a Taliban-led Afghnistan that would become a bane to terrorists.

"I'll be meeting personally with Taliban leaders in the not-too-distant future. And we'll be very much hoping that they will be doing what they say they're going to be doing: They will be killing terrorists. They will be killing some very bad people. They will keep that fight going," Trump said at the Feb. 29 briefing, at which he also announced the first reported U.S. death due to COVID-19.

And as recently as late June of this year, Trump boasted that the deal he'd made for the withdrawal made it impossible or Biden to reverse course and explicitly predicted the collapse of the Afghan government as soon as the U.S. departed.

"I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn't stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don't we think? 21 years. They couldn't stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop," Trump told a crowd in Ohio, and said of the then-current government that they "wouldn't last the only way they last is if we're there."





Trump Gushed About Handing Afghanistan Over to the Taliban


https://www.mediaite.com/news/watch-trump-gushed-about-handing-afghanistan-over-to-the-taliban-who-would-then-kill-terrorists/

---

"Thousands of desperate Afghans remain stranded under Taliban rule in Kabul on Tuesday, as the US and its allies -- still frantically evacuating their personnel from the city's airport -- reckon with the sudden breakdown of their two-decade effort in Afghanistan." -CNN

And Biden couldn't foresee what happened??? Wow, just wow. Should Kamala take control over military decisions?

---

I can tell you have a real genuine concern about Afghanistan. I am sure you have been worried about the people of Afghanistan for the past 20 years.

calpoly said:

---

I can tell you have a real genuine concern about Afghanistan. I am sure you have been worried about the people of Afghanistan for the past 20 years.

---

You never once cared about your tax dollars being wasted in Afghanistan and used to kill innocent people for the past 20 years?

BearForce2 said:

---

calpoly said:

---

I can tell you have a real genuine concern about Afghanistan. I am sure you have been worried about the people of Afghanistan for the past 20 years.

---

You never once cared about your tax dollars being wasted in Afghanistan and used to kill innocent people for the past 20 years?

---

Do you understand sarcasm? I was against invading Afghanistan 20 years ago.

BearForce2 said:

---

calpoly said:

---

I can tell you have a real genuine concern about Afghanistan. I am sure you have been worried about the people of Afghanistan for the past 20 years.

---

You never once cared about your tax dollars being wasted in Afghanistan and used to kill innocent people for the past 20 years?

---

Newsflash: lefties have been calling for an end to the "war on terror" for years.

We tried to train them pic.twitter.com/bykVDVxlQe

— Shinohara (@Shinoha94456815) August 16, 2021

Didn't our intel services know all these years these people couldn't be be trained?

oski003 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

oski003 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

In a matter of months every single American was able to master both epidemiology and middle eastern geopolitical history. Proves we’re the smartest country

— Hamilton Nolan (@hamiltonnolan) August 15, 2021

---

Let’s be clear: busy Americans outside of the political bubble don’t always pay attention to foreign policy debates - but so many are seeing the pictures from Kabul and clearly understand that Joe Biden is weak.

— Richard Grenell (@RichardGrenell) August 16, 2021

---

Biden weak? This is Trump's thing. Hell, he's been talking about pulling troops immediately from Afghanistan for a decade.



But he couldn't do it. Why did it take 3 years to even get an agreement in place? Because he was too busy feuding with Chrissy Teigen and John Legend and other celebrities and watching cable news. Trump was the weakest president in American history. He cried like a baby over every little sleight.

He also couldn't protect the White House from a COVID outbreak. Couldn't even follow simple procedures. Why? Because he is too weak to be inconvenienced.

If Trump was president, he would be hedging and prolonging this war. Biden is ripping off the band-aid. Because he doesn't watch cable news and spend all day and all night on Twitter.

---

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumber.

---

Only oski003 knows how to gracefully exit from a failed military occupation. Everybody else is dumb.

---

Party over country to you Dajo. Apparently, the bravest thing you ever saw a president do was lie to the public, oversee a terrible exit from Afghanistan, and then blame everyone but himself. He sounded like a stubborn, old fool. If Goff gets strip-sacked, I can criticize his ability to hold onto the ball without having to be an NFL QB myself. You could to if you weren't so ridiculously biased.

Most Bidenistas here actually recognize that the withdrawal was executed as bad as Dykes defense defending a Hail Mary. They deflect to discuss what Trump would have done or say the war was unwinnable etc... The execution of the withdrawal was dog****, period.

Here is a snapshot of the scrambling the US is now doing:
There is a Reserve Unit Squadron of 30+ C17's in Charleston. Almost overnight they have 8 crews of reservists on a mission to extract 18,000 US citizens. Then hopefully Afghans who supported the US. That's a lot of C17 work without much time to do it.

---

Oski, you are the one playing politics here. Biden did not lie. He thought the Afghanis would put up more of a fight. He was wrong about that. He said as much in his speech.

There is no graceful way to evacuate from a failed military occupation. Biden's strategy was to keep people and equipment in place to fight. In that case evacuees will not be in place for orderly evacuation.

The alternative is to announce an evacuation in which case everything around you collapses. In that case evacuees will not be in place for an orderly evacuation.

I predicted this response from people like you back in June. I'm just grateful Biden has the courage to see this through.

dajo9 said:

---

oski003 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

oski003 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

In a matter of months every single American was able to master both epidemiology and middle eastern geopolitical history. Proves we’re the smartest country

— Hamilton Nolan (@hamiltonnolan) August 15, 2021

---

Let’s be clear: busy Americans outside of the political bubble don’t always pay attention to foreign policy debates - but so many are seeing the pictures from Kabul and clearly understand that Joe Biden is weak.

— Richard Grenell (@RichardGrenell) August 16, 2021

---

Biden weak? This is Trump's thing. Hell, he's been talking about pulling troops immediately from Afghanistan for a decade.



But he couldn't do it. Why did it take 3 years to even get an agreement in place? Because he was too busy feuding with Chrissy Teigen and John Legend and other celebrities and watching cable news. Trump was the weakest president in American history. He cried like a baby over every little sleight.

He also couldn't protect the White House from a COVID outbreak. Couldn't even follow simple procedures. Why? Because he is too weak to be inconvenienced.

If Trump was president, he would be hedging and prolonging this war. Biden is ripping off the band-aid. Because he doesn't watch cable news and spend all day and all night on Twitter.

---

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumber.

---

Only oski003 knows how to gracefully exit from a failed military occupation. Everybody else is dumb.

---

Party over country to you Dajo. Apparently, the bravest thing you ever saw a president do was lie to the public, oversee a terrible exit from Afghanistan, and then blame everyone but himself. He sounded like a stubborn, old fool. If Goff gets strip-sacked, I can criticize his ability to hold onto the ball without having to be an NFL QB myself. You could to if you weren't so ridiculously biased.

Most Bidenistas here actually recognize that the withdrawal was executed as bad as Dykes defense defending a Hail Mary. They deflect to discuss what Trump would have done or say the war was unwinnable etc... The execution of the withdrawal was dog****, period.

Here is a snapshot of the scrambling the US is now doing:
There is a Reserve Unit Squadron of 30+ C17's in Charleston. Almost overnight they have 8 crews of reservists on a mission to extract 18,000 US citizens. Then hopefully Afghans who supported the US. That's a lot of C17 work without much time to do it.

---

Oski, you are the one playing politics here. Biden did not lie. He thought the Afghanis would put up more of a fight. He was wrong about that. He said as much in his speech.

There is no graceful way to evacuate from a failed military occupation. Biden's strategy was to keep people and equipment in place to fight. In that case evacuees will not be in place for orderly evacuation.

The alternative is to announce an evacuation in which case everything around you collapses. In that case evacuees will not be in place for an orderly evacuation.

I predicted this response from people like you back in June. I'm just grateful Biden has the courage to see this through.

---

If by people like me, you mean people who call out incompetence, then you would be correct. I asked if Biden was incompetent or a liar, you are saying neither because the circumstances were out of his control. I view your response as incompetence. Or powerlessness?

The US has now negotiated a withdrawal, albeit not on th greatest terms. This is preferable to what happened late last week as the US has had to resend in forces and rush transport planes across the world all the way from the east coast because they had their ****ing pants down like little *****es.

I am all for exiting Afghanistan. I acknowledge that the prior administration put the USA on a path to get out this summer or fall. However, the last week of embarrassment rests on Biden. Perhaps he is not incompetent but powerless? Poor guy.

oski003 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

oski003 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

oski003 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

okaydo said:

---

In a matter of months every single American was able to master both epidemiology and middle eastern geopolitical history. Proves we’re the smartest country

— Hamilton Nolan (@hamiltonnolan) August 15, 2021

---

Let’s be clear: busy Americans outside of the political bubble don’t always pay attention to foreign policy debates - but so many are seeing the pictures from Kabul and clearly understand that Joe Biden is weak.

— Richard Grenell (@RichardGrenell) August 16, 2021

---

Biden weak? This is Trump's thing. Hell, he's been talking about pulling troops immediately from Afghanistan for a decade.



But he couldn't do it. Why did it take 3 years to even get an agreement in place? Because he was too busy feuding with Chrissy Teigen and John Legend and other celebrities and watching cable news. Trump was the weakest president in American history. He cried like a baby over every little sleight.

He also couldn't protect the White House from a COVID outbreak. Couldn't even follow simple procedures. Why? Because he is too weak to be inconvenienced.

If Trump was president, he would be hedging and prolonging this war. Biden is ripping off the band-aid. Because he doesn't watch cable news and spend all day and all night on Twitter.

---

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumber.

---

Only oski003 knows how to gracefully exit from a failed military occupation. Everybody else is dumb.

---

Party over country to you Dajo. Apparently, the bravest thing you ever saw a president do was lie to the public, oversee a terrible exit from Afghanistan, and then blame everyone but himself. He sounded like a stubborn, old fool. If Goff gets strip-sacked, I can criticize his ability to hold onto the ball without having to be an NFL QB myself. You could to if you weren't so ridiculously biased.

Most Bidenistas here actually recognize that the withdrawal was executed as bad as Dykes defense defending a Hail Mary. They deflect to discuss what Trump would have done or say the war was unwinnable etc... The execution of the withdrawal was dog****, period.

Here is a snapshot of the scrambling the US is now doing:
There is a Reserve Unit Squadron of 30+ C17's in Charleston. Almost overnight they have 8 crews of reservists on a mission to extract 18,000 US citizens. Then hopefully Afghans who supported the US. That's a lot of C17 work without much time to do it.

---

Oski, you are the one playing politics here. Biden did not lie. He thought the Afghanis would put up more of a fight. He was wrong about that. He said as much in his speech.

There is no graceful way to evacuate from a failed military occupation. Biden's strategy was to keep people and equipment in place to fight. In that case evacuees will not be in place for orderly evacuation.

The alternative is to announce an evacuation in which case everything around you collapses. In that case evacuees will not be in place for an orderly evacuation.

I predicted this response from people like you back in June. I'm just grateful Biden has the courage to see this through.

---

If by people like me, you mean people who call out incompetence, then you would be correct. I asked if Biden was incompetent or a liar, you are saying neither because the circumstances were out of his control. I view your response as incompetence. Or powerlessness?

The US has now negotiated a withdrawal, albeit not on th greatest terms. This is preferable to what happened late last week as the US has had to resend in forces and rush transport planes across the world all the way from the east coast because they had their ****ing pants down like little *****es.

I am all for exiting Afghanistan. I acknowledge that the prior administration put the USA on a path to get out this summer or fall. However, the last week of embarrassment rests on Biden. Perhaps he is not incompetent but powerless? Poor guy.

---

Powerlessness. The United States is powerless to effect an orderly evacuation from a failed military occupation from across the globe. I am grateful that Biden has the courage to see this through. Most Presidents would, and have, passed the buck to the next President.

Gen. Mark Milley: "There was nothing that I or anyone else saw that indicated a collapse of this army and this government in 11 days." pic.twitter.com/w5PFh9QRn4

— The Post Millennial (@TPostMillennial) August 18, 2021

They were all surprised.

BearForce2 said:

---

Gen. Mark Milley: "There was nothing that I or anyone else saw that indicated a collapse of this army and this government in 11 days." pic.twitter.com/w5PFh9QRn4

— The Post Millennial (@TPostMillennial) August 18, 2021

They were all surprised.

---

Dumb f$ck should resign along with the heads of intelligence but if there is one lesson learned from all these fiascos it is nobody is ever held responsible

Joe Biden doesn’t know basic facts about the U.S. presence at the Kabul airport pic.twitter.com/3noBOzApx0

— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) August 20, 2021

• Biden calls on reporters from a pre-approved list.
• Biden falsely claims there's "no question of our credibility from our allies around the world" after his botched Afghanistan withdrawal
• Biden does not commit to staying past August 31 deadline to rescue ALL Americans stranded in Afghanistan. He said, "we'll make that judgement as we go."
• Biden falsely says "no circumstance" where American citizens have been blocked from Kabul airport

REPORTER: "Why do you continue to trust the Taliban, Mr. President?"

BIDEN: *walks away*

It is astounding to me that some of the lefties in this thread can't help but point to Trump.

ALL presidents inherit problems from their predecessors. Trump inherited a bad Iran deal and N. Korea, not to mention an aggressive China that Obama had no appetite to confront. This is not a defense of how Trump dealt with those issues. For purposes of this discussion, it is irrelevant. It is merely to point out that all presidents are faced with these issues and are responsible for how they act once they take office.

Upon taking office, Biden reversed innumerable Trump policies and agreements (as Trump did when he exited the Iran deal and trans pacific agreement). He isn't shy about it. If Biden didn't like the deal Trump cut with the Taliban, he could have exited it. Trump's deal (whatever you think of it) had conditions that were not met - Biden could have revoked it or repudiated it. Even the AP says that.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-middle-east-taliban-doha-e6f48507848aef2ee849154604aa11be

The reality is that Biden had no appetite to revoke the deal and stay in Afghanistan because he wanted to leave. He made an affirmative choice to leave - it had almost nothing to do with Trump. And, for purposes of this discussion, the merits of Biden's choice are a different discussion. But pinning this on Trump and his agreement is both dishonest and absurd - read the AP article I linked to.

Having decided to leave, Biden is 1000% responsible for how the exit occurred. And the damage of his lie (that the taliban would not take over) is that it prevented US civilians, contractors, allies and friendly Afghanis from preparing for a timely exit. Those defending or rationalizing the lie (Sycasey) ignore this fact. People will die because of that lie that wouldn't have otherwise.

There was no reason to close Bagram. There was no reason to discontinue air support for the Afghan army. It is a bit off topic, but the US spent 20 years training the Afghan army to fight like we do - with massive air support and intelligence gathering. Then we took that away and wonder why the Afghans couldn't fight?

Biden has botched this beyond belief. His behavior is inexplicable - not coordinating with our closest allies, not listening to the intelligence he was given (or ignoring and lying about it), allowing the Taliban to obtain possession of all of the military equipment, not calling Boris Johnson back for 36 hours in the midst of the crisis, etc. Withdrawing troops before evacuating citizens.

And most shamefully, his administrations has refused to unequivocally state they will protect all US citizens in Afghanistan. That is truly unprecedented and an abrogation of Biden's most basic duty.

BearGoggles said:

---

It is astounding to me that some of the lefties in this thread can't help but point to Trump.

ALL presidents inherit problems from their predecessors. Trump inherited a bad Iran deal and N. Korea, not to mention an aggressive China that Obama had no appetite to confront. This is not a defense of how Trump dealt with those issues. For purposes of this discussion, it is irrelevant. It is merely to point out that all presidents are faced with these issues and are responsible for how they act once they take office.

Upon taking office, Biden reversed innumerable Trump policies and agreements (as Trump did when he exited the Iran deal and trans pacific agreement). He isn't shy about it. If Biden didn't like the deal Trump cut with the Taliban, he could have exited it. Trump's deal (whatever you think of it) had conditions that were not met - Biden could have revoked it or repudiated it. Even the AP says that.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-middle-east-taliban-doha-e6f48507848aef2ee849154604aa11be

The reality is that Biden had no appetite to revoke the deal and stay in Afghanistan because he wanted to leave. He made an affirmative choice to leave - it had almost nothing to do with Trump. And, for purposes of this discussion, the merits of Biden's choice are a different discussion. But pinning this on Trump and his agreement is both dishonest and absurd - read the AP article I linked to.

Having decided to leave, Biden is 1000% responsible for how the exit occurred. And the damage of his lie (that the taliban would not take over) is that it prevented US civilians, contractors, allies and friendly Afghanis from preparing for a timely exit. Those defending or rationalizing the lie (Sycasey) ignore this fact. People will die because of that lie that wouldn't have otherwise.

There was no reason to close Bagram. There was no reason to discontinue air support for the Afghan army. It is a bit off topic, but the US spent 20 years training the Afghan army to fight like we do - with massive air support and intelligence gathering. Then we took that away and wonder why the Afghans couldn't fight?

Biden has botched this beyond belief. His behavior is inexplicable - not coordinating with our closest allies, not listening to the intelligence he was given (or ignoring and lying about it), allowing the Taliban to obtain possession of all of the military equipment, not calling Boris Johnson back for 36 hours in the midst of the crisis, etc. Withdrawing troops before evacuating citizens.

And most shamefully, his administrations has refused to unequivocally state they will protect all US citizens in Afghanistan. That is truly unprecedented and an abrogation of Biden's most basic duty.

---

98 days ago...
https://af.usembassy.gov/security-alert-may-15-2021/

BearGoggles said:

---

It is astounding to me that some of the lefties in this thread can't help but point to Trump.

ALL presidents inherit problems from their predecessors. Trump inherited a bad Iran deal and N. Korea, not to mention an aggressive China that Obama had no appetite to confront. This is not a defense of how Trump dealt with those issues. For purposes of this discussion, it is irrelevant. It is merely to point out that all presidents are faced with these issues and are responsible for how they act once they take office.

Upon taking office, Biden reversed innumerable Trump policies and agreements (as Trump did when he exited the Iran deal and trans pacific agreement). He isn't shy about it. If Biden didn't like the deal Trump cut with the Taliban, he could have exited it. Trump's deal (whatever you think of it) had conditions that were not met - Biden could have revoked it or repudiated it. Even the AP says that.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-middle-east-taliban-doha-e6f48507848aef2ee849154604aa11be

The reality is that Biden had no appetite to revoke the deal and stay in Afghanistan because he wanted to leave. He made an affirmative choice to leave - it had almost nothing to do with Trump. And, for purposes of this discussion, the merits of Biden's choice are a different discussion. But pinning this on Trump and his agreement is both dishonest and absurd - read the AP article I linked to.

Having decided to leave, Biden is 1000% responsible for how the exit occurred. And the damage of his lie (that the taliban would not take over) is that it prevented US civilians, contractors, allies and friendly Afghanis from preparing for a timely exit. Those defending or rationalizing the lie (Sycasey) ignore this fact. People will die because of that lie that wouldn't have otherwise.

There was no reason to close Bagram. There was no reason to discontinue air support for the Afghan army. It is a bit off topic, but the US spent 20 years training the Afghan army to fight like we do - with massive air support and intelligence gathering. Then we took that away and wonder why the Afghans couldn't fight?

Biden has botched this beyond belief. His behavior is inexplicable - not coordinating with our closest allies, not listening to the intelligence he was given (or ignoring and lying about it), allowing the Taliban to obtain possession of all of the military equipment, not calling Boris Johnson back for 36 hours in the midst of the crisis, etc. Withdrawing troops before evacuating citizens.

And most shamefully, his administrations has refused to unequivocally state they will protect all US citizens in Afghanistan. That is truly unprecedented and an abrogation of Biden's most basic duty.

---

I don't know, man. Trump's Doha agreement specifically states abandoning the U.S. bases and withdrawing all "supporting services personnel."

Most of the criticism of Biden assumes a false choice. Biden didn't really have an opportunity to string this out or re-cut the deal and still end the occupation. He had a choice between re-engaging in hostilities or getting out now. Either way he was going to be criticized.

The problem was that Trump negotiated a Trumpian deal. He ignored his advisors and all prudence and made one of the worst deals that the US has ever made but thought it was a good deal. If history is any indication we will later find out that there was something in it for Trump personally.

So Biden either had to unwind the deal, send more Troops in and risk further American lives or continue with this quick withdrawal. I would have liked to have seen him get more of our people out including our Afghan allies, but the latter was made more difficult by Trump nuking the state department and Republicans making it harder to grant visas to Afghans.

Trump and Republicans tied his shoes together and then criticized him for tripping.