Iran. Oh, the irony...

243,683 Views | 2736 Replies | Last: 2 hrs ago by Big C
dajo9
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BearlySane88 said:




The war is hurting the global economy. Of course Carney wants the war to end. We all do except for the crazies. Ending the war is a different question from starting the war in the first place and ending the war doesn't mean we gained anything from the war. By all appearances, we lost the war. Maybe that will change when Dear Leader finally allows us to see the output of his negotiations.
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PAC-10-BEAR
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Oil prices have plummeted to $75-76 a barrel.
cal83dls79
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Cal88 said:



Quote:

"Israeli outlet Israel Hayom reports, in a claim not yet echoed by other major outlets, that President Trump is weighing the dismissal of several senior administration figures who opposed the Iran deal, including Defense Secretary Hegseth and CIA Director Ratcliffe.

"The argument has been settled. Those who opposed it may pay a personal price," a senior U.S. official was quoted as saying about the behind-the-scenes turmoil."


Good!


well THAT is fascinating, if true. Even Trump got tired of the spinning.
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BearNIt
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When they won"t release the details of the deal, it means it is a &@#'$ deal.
bearister
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Trump Iran nuclear deal risks falling short of Obama version https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-06-17/trump-s-iran-nuclear-deal-risks-falling-short-of-obama-version

READ: Leaked Alleged Text of Trump-Iran Deal https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/read-leaked-alleged-text-of-trump-iran-deal/
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BearlySane88
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bearister said:

Trump Iran nuclear deal risks falling short of Obama version https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-06-17/trump-s-iran-nuclear-deal-risks-falling-short-of-obama-version

READ: Leaked Alleged Text of Trump-Iran Deal https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/read-leaked-alleged-text-of-trump-iran-deal/


All of these fake leaks are supposedly just that, fake.

Dwight Way
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PAC-10-BEAR said:

chazzed said:

I bet The Onion puts out an "article" similar to this.



What is Iran "getting"?


$300 Billion
tequila4kapp
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I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.
dajo9
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Any guesses on what Trump's big antics will be to disrupt the focus away from the deal announced on Friday. Will have to be big. Maybe a big Epstein file drop or something.
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dajo9
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tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.


What kind of bs Iranian propaganda have you been listening to?
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bearister
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dajo9 said:

Any guesses on what Trump's big antics will be to disrupt the focus away from the deal announced on Friday. Will have to be big. Maybe a big Epstein file drop or something.

Another nipple revelation?
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bearister
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dajo9 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

What kind of bs Iranian propaganda have you been listening to?


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Cal88
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tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.
tequila4kapp
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Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.

I get that point of view. But consider: the "reported" MOU allows Iran to retain the status quo of their nuclear program. Iran promises not to build or procure nukes (we have to trust their promise not to build/buy nukes...which they were already breaking under JCOP). Iran will use "best efforts" to open the straight of Hormutz and they are disallowed from charging fees for 30 days. Support for regional terrorists isn't addressed. Iran's drone and missile programs are not addressed. What happened to the US providing all medical grade nuke materials forever? What happened to SoH being international waters and fees never being allowed? What happened to Iran giving up their nuke program? etc, etc, etc. This is a near total capitulation by the US. And we put people's lives in danger for this? Beyond absurd. F*** Trump.
Anarchistbear
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Trump will blame all this on Vance
dajo9
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tequila4kapp said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.

I get that point of view. But consider: the "reported" MOU allows Iran to retain the status quo of their nuclear program. Iran promises not to build or procure nukes (we have to trust their promise not to build/buy nukes...which they were already breaking under JCOP). Iran will use "best efforts" to open the straight of Hormutz and they are disallowed from charging fees for 30 days. Support for regional terrorists isn't addressed. Iran's drone and missile programs are not addressed. What happened to the US providing all medical grade nuke materials forever? What happened to SoH being international waters and fees never being allowed? What happened to Iran giving up their nuke program? etc, etc, etc. This is a near total capitulation by the US. And we put people's lives in danger for this? Beyond absurd. F*** Trump.


Lol

tequila has TDS
Cal88 has TDS
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chazzed
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Anarchistbear said:

Trump will blame all this on Vance

Vance and Hegseth.



tequila4kapp
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dajo9 said:


Lol

tequila has TDS
Cal88 has TDS

Maybe so. File this one away for the next time someone claims I'm a mindless Trump / MAGA apologist.

That is all for now...I'm stepping away from the thread and going back to just moderating...
BearlySane88
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Might want to temper yourselves until we actually see the agreement.
Cal88
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tequila4kapp said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.

I get that point of view. But consider: the "reported" MOU allows Iran to retain the status quo of their nuclear program. Iran promises not to build or procure nukes (we have to trust their promise not to build/buy nukes...which they were already breaking under JCOP). Iran will use "best efforts" to open the straight of Hormutz and they are disallowed from charging fees for 30 days. Support for regional terrorists isn't addressed. Iran's drone and missile programs are not addressed. What happened to the US providing all medical grade nuke materials forever? What happened to SoH being international waters and fees never being allowed? What happened to Iran giving up their nuke program? etc, etc, etc. This is a near total capitulation by the US. And we put people's lives in danger for this? Beyond absurd. F*** Trump.


What would be your proposal for Iran not controlling the SoH, and do you think there are any circumstances where they would turn their missiles in?? Maybe they won't charge passage toll if they get their $24B back, + some of that promised $300B fund, but why would they turn in their only means of military dissuasion?

They will probably just freeze their nuclear program, but I doubt they scrap it completely as Israel would not hesitate to nuke Iran if things escalated in a war with Iran.

As far as support for regional terrorists, that is indeed a tough clause to settle, Trump will have to put his foot down and force Israel to stop its wanton terror campaign over Lebanon.
bearister
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chazzed
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Let's see if this is accurate. If it is, our worst fears appear to be coming true.

"BREAKING: The US has released the full 14-point memorandum with Iran. It outlines sweeping commitments that would fundamentally reshape U.S. policy toward Iran, including sanctions relief, the release of frozen assets, a $300 billion reconstruction commitment, changes to U.S. military deployments, and a framework for broader negotiations.

The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran have jointly agreed in good faith on [ __ date] on the following:

1 The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran and their allies in the current war are signing this MOU to declare the immediate and permanent termination of military operations on all fronts, including in Lebanon, and undertake from now on not to initiate any war or any military operation against each other, and to refrain from the threat or use of force against each other, and ensuring the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Lebanon. The final deal will confirm the permanent termination of the war on all fronts, including in Lebanon and other provisions of this paragraph.

2 The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran undertake to respect each other's sovereignty and territorial integrity and to refrain from interfering in each other's internal affairs.

3 The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran commit to negotiating and achieving the final deal in maximum 60 days, extendable with mutual consent.

4 Immediately upon the signing of this MOU, the United States of America will begin the removal of its naval blockade and any disturbances or impediments against the Islamic Republic of Iran, and will fully end the naval blockade within 30 days. During this period, the traffic of vessels will be in proportion to the numbers of pre-war traffic being restored by the Islamic Republic of Iran. The United States of America further undertakes to remove its forces from the proximity of the Islamic Republic of Iran within 30 days after the final deal.

5 Upon the signing of this MOU, the Islamic Republic of Iran will make arrangements using its best efforts for the safe passage of commercial vessels with no charge, for 60 days only, from the Persian Gulf to the Sea of Oman and vice versa. The traffic of commercial vessels will immediately start, and considering the need for removing the technical and military obstacles, and demining by the Islamic Republic of Iran will be instated within 30 days. The Islamic Republic of Iran will conduct dialog with the Sultanate of Oman to define the future administration and maritime services in the Strait of Hormuz in discussion with other Persian Gulf littoral states in line with the applicable international law and the sovereign rights of coastal states of the Strait of Hormuz.

6 The United States of America undertakes with regional partners to develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan with at least USD 300 billion for the reconstruction and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The mechanism for the implementation of this plan will be finalized as part of a final deal within 60 days. All required licenses, waivers and permissions needed for the relevant financial transactions will be granted by the United States of America.

7 The United States of America undertakes to terminate all types of sanctions against the Islamic Republic of Iran, including the United Nations Security Council resolutions, IAEA Board of Governors resolutions, and all unilateral US sanctions, primary and secondary, in an agreed upon schedule as part of the final deal. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America acknowledge the critical importance of the sanctions termination issue above mentioned, and expressed their intentions to immediately address these issues in the negotiations in order to achieve mutual agreement on them.

8 The Islamic Republic of Iran reaffirms that it shall not procure or develop nuclear weapons. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran have agreed to resolve the disposition of stockpiled enriched material pursuant to a mechanism that will be mutually agreed upon in accordance with the schedule mentioned in paragraph seven, with the minimum methodology to be down blended on site under the supervision of the IAEA. The two parties also agreed to discuss the issue of enrichment and other mutually agreed matters related to the Islamic Republic of Iran's nuclear needs, based on a satisfactory framework being agreed upon in the final deal. The final deal will confirm the provisions of this paragraph. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran acknowledge the critical importance of the nuclear issues above mentioned. They express their intention to immediately address these issues in the negotiations in order to achieve mutual agreement on them.

9 Pending the final deal, the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran agree to maintain the status quo. The Islamic Republic of Iran will maintain the current status quo of its nuclear program, and the United States of America will not impose any new sanctions and will not deploy additional forces in the region.

10 The United States of America undertakes that immediately upon the signing of this MOU and until the termination of sanctions, US Department of Treasury will issue waivers for the export of Iranian crude oil, petroleum products and derivatives, and all associated services, including banking transactions, insurances, transportation, etc.

11 The United States of America undertakes to make fully available for use the frozen or restricted funds and assets of the Islamic Republic of Iran upon the implementation of this MOU. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran will mutually agree on the procedures related to the release of these funds during negotiations. Such funds, whether retained in the original account or transferred, shall be made fully usable for payment to any ultimate beneficiary designated by the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The United States of America undertakes to issue all necessary licenses and authorizations accordingly.

12 The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran agree that an executive mechanism will be established to monitor the successful implementation of this MOU and the future compliance of the final deal.

13 After signing this MOU, and subject to the beginning of the implementation of paragraphs 1, 4, 5, 10 and 11 of this MOU, and the continuing implementation of these measures, the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran will start negotiations regarding the final deal exclusively on the other paragraphs.

14 The final deal will be endorsed by a binding UNSC resolution."

dajo9
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Quote:

5 Upon the signing of this MOU, the Islamic Republic of Iran will make arrangements using its best efforts for the safe passage of commercial vessels with no charge, for 60 days only,

9 The Islamic Republic of Iran will maintain the current status quo of its nuclear program

11 The United States of America undertakes to make fully available for use the frozen or restricted funds and assets of the Islamic Republic of Iran upon the implementation of this MOU.

This is a document of American defeat unparalleled since the Vietnam War. A complete regression from where Obama / Biden left things.
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.

The real mistake was starting the war in the first place and getting the Strait of Hormuz blocked up as a result. Now that these are the circumstances, it's probably best to just cut bait right now even if the deal we're getting is going to suck.

It was foolish to think we could topple Iran's regime with military strikes, and yes Trump has to own that.
smh
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dajo9 said:

This is a document of American defeat unparalleled since the Vietnam War. A complete regression from where Obama / Biden left things.

dunno, you may be right. but in the fullness of time America's retreat from Vietnam was the best achievable outcome.
signed, stationed 2 years over there (early 70s)
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.

The real mistake was starting the war in the first place and getting the Strait of Hormuz blocked up as a result. Now that these are the circumstances, it's probably best to just cut bait right now even if the deal we're getting is going to suck.

It was foolish to think we could topple Iran's regime with military strikes, and yes Trump has to own that.


Yes indeed, that was my position before the war, it was a huge mistake. This being said, the MOU looks like the best option at this point, realistically the alternatives being orders of magnitude worse. Ironically enough, you would also agree with me on Ukraine if your starting point also was a realistic one.

Remains to see whether the neocons/Israel are going to sabotage the deal, leveraging their influence over Congress and Trump.
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

tequila4kapp said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.

I get that point of view. But consider: the "reported" MOU allows Iran to retain the status quo of their nuclear program. Iran promises not to build or procure nukes (we have to trust their promise not to build/buy nukes...which they were already breaking under JCOP). Iran will use "best efforts" to open the straight of Hormutz and they are disallowed from charging fees for 30 days. Support for regional terrorists isn't addressed. Iran's drone and missile programs are not addressed. What happened to the US providing all medical grade nuke materials forever? What happened to SoH being international waters and fees never being allowed? What happened to Iran giving up their nuke program? etc, etc, etc. This is a near total capitulation by the US. And we put people's lives in danger for this? Beyond absurd. F*** Trump.


Lol

tequila has TDS
Cal88 has TDS

Dajo has Cal88DS.

Seriously, why rail on Trump if today he stops digging and chooses a bad deal over a catastrophic alternative.

Quote:

dunno, you may be right. but in the fullness of time America's retreat from Vietnam was the best achievable outcome.
signed, stationed 2 years over there (early 70s)

Exactly. Nixon deserves some credit for ending the Vietnam War.
dajo9
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smh said:

dajo9 said:

This is a document of American defeat unparalleled since the Vietnam War. A complete regression from where Obama / Biden left things.

dunno, you may be right. but in the fullness of time America's retreat from Vietnam was the best achievable outcome.
signed, stationed 2 years over there (early 70s)

Yes, just like Trump losing a war is a positive indicator for peace in the next few years. Sometimes when you lose, you win.
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sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.

The real mistake was starting the war in the first place and getting the Strait of Hormuz blocked up as a result. Now that these are the circumstances, it's probably best to just cut bait right now even if the deal we're getting is going to suck.

It was foolish to think we could topple Iran's regime with military strikes, and yes Trump has to own that.


Yes indeed, that was my position before the war, it was a huge mistake. This being said, the MOU looks like the best option at this point, realistically the alternatives being orders of magnitude worse. Ironically enough, you would also agree with me on Ukraine if your starting point also was a realistic one.

The difference in Ukraine is that we don't have to make the deal, the Russians and Ukrainians do. If either party doesn't want to stop fighting then we can't make them. In Iran it's us doing it, so we can cut a deal to stop.

Yes yes, I know all of the arguments for why the US is really responsible for starting the Ukraine War. As I have previously stated, I don't agree.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.

The real mistake was starting the war in the first place and getting the Strait of Hormuz blocked up as a result. Now that these are the circumstances, it's probably best to just cut bait right now even if the deal we're getting is going to suck.

It was foolish to think we could topple Iran's regime with military strikes, and yes Trump has to own that.


Yes indeed, that was my position before the war, it was a huge mistake. This being said, the MOU looks like the best option at this point, realistically the alternatives being orders of magnitude worse. Ironically enough, you would also agree with me on Ukraine if your starting point also was a realistic one.

The difference in Ukraine is that we don't have to make the deal, the Russians and Ukrainians do. If either party doesn't want to stop fighting then we can't make them. In Iran it's us doing it, so we can cut a deal to stop.

Yes yes, I know all of the arguments for why the US is really responsible for starting the Ukraine War. As I have previously stated, I don't agree.


Ukraine can't fight without NATO.

As well in Iran, Israel can play spoiler leveraging its political influence over the US.
PAC-10-BEAR
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tequila4kapp said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

I cannot describe the degree to which I hate this MOU. Trump got bent over without getting a beer first. You cannot put soldiers lives at risk to end up with this.

The alternative here is a lot more soldiers (and even more civilian) lives and a global economic crisis.

I get that point of view. But consider: the "reported" MOU allows Iran to retain the status quo of their nuclear program. Iran promises not to build or procure nukes (we have to trust their promise not to build/buy nukes...which they were already breaking under JCOP). Iran will use "best efforts" to open the straight of Hormutz and they are disallowed from charging fees for 30 days. Support for regional terrorists isn't addressed. Iran's drone and missile programs are not addressed. What happened to the US providing all medical grade nuke materials forever? What happened to SoH being international waters and fees never being allowed? What happened to Iran giving up their nuke program? etc, etc, etc. This is a near total capitulation by the US. And we put people's lives in danger for this? Beyond absurd. F*** Trump.

There is a high likelihood of Iranian violations or testing the limits in the near term (within the 60-day window or shortly after), with a strong chance of renewed U.S. strikes if that happens.

This is a fragile, non-binding interim framework built on mutual distrust.

There's no need to get bent out of shape; you may get what you want. The U.S. will bomb Iran again.

chazzed
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smh said:

dajo9 said:

This is a document of American defeat unparalleled since the Vietnam War. A complete regression from where Obama / Biden left things.

dunno, you may be right. but in the fullness of time America's retreat from Vietnam was the best achievable outcome.
signed, stationed 2 years over there (early 70s)


Thank you for your service. You must've seen some terrible things.
smh
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chazzed said:

Thank you for your service. You must've seen some terrible things.

nothing bad, really, other than some of the flicks on movie night
signed, projectionist
Anarchistbear
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For over 20 years Iran has been on the verge of a nuclear weapon but there never is one, just the threat and saber rattling. Just let it be.
dajo9
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smh said:

chazzed said:

Thank you for your service. You must've seen some terrible things.

nothing bad, really, other than some of the flicks on movie night
signed, projectionist


At the core of every fascist movement in history has been disaffected war veterans (including Vietnam and Iraq). Thank you for not going down that road.
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
 
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